Alternate idea for Shopmenu/Shopwhoring fix

[Serif The Sheriff 73]

Ok, so I hate the new shopmenu because pretty much everything is overpriced now. From the way I see it, the shopmenu is a big help for weaker races to get bonuses they need to beat stronger races (or stronger players).

 

I made this suggestion awhile ago as a fix to better players or better races shopwhoring and I guess it got looked over or it wasn't relevant enough at the time. But my idea was that instead of increasing prices, or further restricting items, put in something similar to the race whoring script. For example if someone has a 2 or 3 kd, then start to limit the amount of items they can buy, that way the players who are really good will begin to be limited on the amount of shopwhoring they can do, whereas the lesser players and races would still be able to buy enough items to give them the edge they need to beat the stronger races/players. 

 

Here is an example of how this could work:

Let's say I am on Naix and I have a 3 kd at 15 kills, then because of that I can only have 5 shopmenu items, then for every 1 or 2 rounds that I maintain that high of a kd after reaching that many kills the number of shopmenu items I can have drops down. This doesn't have to drop all the way down to 0 seeing as most people buy crusaders so it could drop down to 1 or 2 max shop items if need be, but that will make it so it's harder for me to shopwhore and then if I am still doing good without shopwhoring then eventually the race whore script will kick in knocking me off the race.

 

Obviously there are certain situations where that script can be avoided, for example, if I hop onto a knife race and am doing really bad and go 1-10 then I could potentially hop onto a really good race and then go on a mass killing spree and get all shopwhored up without worrying about the script. So for something in that instance, if a player gets too big of a kill streak then just based on their kill streak alone they could get their max items lowered.

 

I don't know how easy or how long it would be to implement something like this, but I personally greatly prefer this to the current way shopmenu/shopwhoring has been deal with.

 

Another thing brought up by Bullet is that part of the item price raise was because it would prevent people from buying all 6 shop items in one round if they are given cash. Little Bunny Fufu had a really good idea on how to fix that as well by putting a limit on how many shopmenu items someone can buy in a round. That way people can't just shopwhore in a single round and will actually have to stay alive and build up to the max items.

 

I think if a shopwhoring script and a item buy limit per round was set then it would be much easier to balance the shopmenu and shopwhoring instead of having to jack up the prices for everything.

 

Skitt since you are the one who made the change to shop (as far as I know) I want to know what you think of this and if this is something you guys would consider doing.

[turbulance 105]

Serif you should just leave the forums alone for awhile.

[xmen 983]

I'm getting on the skitt train... The new shopmenu with like nothing but hp and xp and respawn and crusaders was pretty dece actually.. Since ppl can't shopwhore on the op races and I coulda actually kill marzu with warden when he was playing fyndhorn. 

 

Go skitt fight the power! Races gaining additional skills when people are doing well did really increase the powergap I just didn't see it before

[Serif The Sheriff 73]

Serif you should just leave the forums alone for awhile.

Well I do not like some of the changes and I know other people don't like some of the changes so I thought I would just try and be helpful by proposing an alternative that people could be happy with. I was all for reducing the shopmenu down to just a few basic items like Skitt had it for a little while, but if all the items are going to be back in shop then they shouldn't have been priced the way they were and if all the items are going to be left on the server then there are better ways (I think) of balancing it out.

[Wintergreen 1603]

Rather than having to shopwhore to make a race playable, why don't you suggest fixes for the weak races? Talking to the engineers about  concerns and fixes is really helpful.

[Serif The Sheriff 73]

Rather than having to shopwhore to make a race playable, why don't you suggest fixes for the weak races? Talking to the engineers about  concerns and fixes is really helpful.

There are definitely a small handful of races I think have to rely on shopmenu items to be able to compete against some of the stronger races which is something that should definitely be fixed, but raising prices of the shop items hurts everyone equally and when it's done because of the stronger players and races then I think it causes some unbalance. Yes, it makes it harder for stronger races and players to shopwhore, but if they do manage to shopwhore, it is way harder for a weaker race or player to do anything about it because it will always be harder for them to do so. From my understanding, it was never really the shopmenu that was the problem, it was the fact that cash is given out every five rounds and the fact that a lot of the better players/better races have the ability to shopwhore that was the problem. That's why I think trying to alter shopmenu was a bad idea because it doesn't necessarily solve the problem, it just makes it harder for most people to accomplish shopwhoring, but for the players like Marzu, Spicy, and Pug, having the full shopmenu even with raised prices still won't be a big deal because they are good enough they can still probably get enough money to shopwhore either way. That's the way that I am looking at this whole thing, but obviously if no one else agrees then it doesn't matter, but I told the server about my idea earlier and almost everyone was pretty receptive to it over the price raise.

[Iherdcows 3419]

Serif you should just leave the forums alone for awhile.

Its funny because I was about to give you the same advice.

[Destin 1958]

Was great until you asked me

[Serif The Sheriff 73]

Cows are you saying that you agree with Shin that I need to get off forums, or that you were about ready to tell Shin he should get off the forums?

[Iherdcows 3419]

Cows are you saying that you agree with Shin that I need to get off forums, or that you were about ready to tell Shin he should get off the forums?

turbulance. he goes by so many different names now.

[water.exe 725]

Its not a shopwhore problem because a starter race can beat most races that require 1000+levels it has never been a shop problem, the problem is people want to stay on one race that just murders everything and not play anything. You can say all you want that you dont race whore because the script never kicks in but if you leave the server on Naix and come back on and play almost exclusively naix every single map you are whoring a race. I have seen race whoring before back way when WCS1 & 2 were things and believe me it is complete bullshit that it is the hardest rule to enforce on the servers because racewhoring hurts WCS as whole more because people will leave. Example was when Chuck Norris was testing the a race I cant remember which one he literally made over half the server leave cause of how the race played and he technically never whored on it.

[BLiNDBoi 930]

Its not a shopwhore problem because a starter race can beat most races that require 1000+levels it has never been a shop problem, the problem is people want to stay on one race that just murders everything and not play anything. You can say all you want that you dont race whore because the script never kicks in but if you leave the server on Naix and come back on and play almost exclusively naix every single map you are whoring a race. I have seen race whoring before back way when WCS1 & 2 were things and believe me it is complete bullshit that it is the hardest rule to enforce on the servers because racewhoring hurts WCS as whole more because people will leave. Example was when Chuck Norris was testing the a race I cant remember which one he literally made over half the server leave cause of how the race played and he technically never whored on it.

Keep in mind you're are referencing back to WCS1 in which is in the past. It also had quite a few races that were races still heavily into the development phase.

Edited November 17, 2014 by BLiNDBoi

[Eddy 3887]

The only shopmenu item that needed to be touched was necklace!

 

Skitt please fix

 

 

But honestly if a race has to depend on being able to whore shopmenu, then an engineer should probably take a look at the race and balance it.

[Serif The Sheriff 73]

The only shopmenu item that needed to be touched was necklace!

 

Skitt please fix

 

 

But honestly if a race has to depend on being able to whore shopmenu, then an engineer should probably take a look at the race and balance it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!^^^^^^^^!!!!!^^^^^^^!^!^!!^!^!^!^^!^!^

[skitt 1307]

Ok, a shopwhoring script isn't going to be implemented. That seems ridiculous, to me. The shopmenu is there to give you some extra addons when you have some extra cash. Thats it. We punish people enough with our anti race whoring code. I dont see why we should be punishing them even further. Shopmenu isn't meant to be strong enough to make a race overpowered. That is why we have restrictions on certain races for certain items. However, obviously the restrictions aren't perfect, as I've been reading and noticing lately. (YA IMA RESTRICT HEALTH SHIT ON NAIX)

shopmenu becomes an issue when there is always ample amounts of cash. Now, there are a few ways to solve this. Giving less cash, raising prices, and just getting rid the meat of the shopmenu. The cash change had some other effects on gameplay as well as dealing with shopwhoring. So cash given will stay how it is for the time being. I think I struck a decent balance with the cash giving distribution. I've come up with a bit more balanced prices for shop items. I think it is pretty decent, but I'd need to play some more to get a really good feel for it. (which i don't get to do much, anymore) I took a lot of shopmenu items away to see how the server would react. I don't have much time to just idle in the server and listen to opinions about it. I wanted to see some threads. However, I never really got any. Personally, that tells me that stripping the shopmenu wasn't really a huge issue with players, and that it could stay. However, I wanted to offer the alternative of balancing the prices out that coincides with the dumb amount of cash that is given. I thought maybe it would be fun to have some maps with more powerful players(more cash=more shopitems) and some maps where the players are a bit more scaled down because they don't have the ability to buy as many items.

We have a few options here:.
Keep shopmenu how it is now.
strip shopmenu to what it was previously(subject to small changes): tomes, books, crusaders wish, respawn, health items, sunglasses, ect.

i like #2

[xmen 983]

I think this calls for a staff meeting and/or community poll?

[FuFu 7]

out of those 2 id perfer #2

Edited November 18, 2014 by Little Bunny FuFu

[turbulance 105]

I go by two names Cows get on my level. Still just say no to shopmenu in general.Just take it away leave scrolls of exp and respawn everything else go away

[Face 1910]

Ok, a shopwhoring script isn't going to be implemented. That seems ridiculous, to me. The shopmenu is there to give you some extra addons when you have some extra cash. Thats it. We punish people enough with our anti race whoring code. I dont see why we should be punishing them even further. Shopmenu isn't meant to be strong enough to make a race overpowered. That is why we have restrictions on certain races for certain items. However, obviously the restrictions aren't perfect, as I've been reading and noticing lately. (YA IMA RESTRICT HEALTH SHIT ON NAIX)

shopmenu becomes an issue when there is always ample amounts of cash. Now, there are a few ways to solve this. Giving less cash, raising prices, and just getting rid the meat of the shopmenu. The cash change had some other effects on gameplay as well as dealing with shopwhoring. So cash given will stay how it is for the time being. I think I struck a decent balance with the cash giving distribution. I've come up with a bit more balanced prices for shop items. I think it is pretty decent, but I'd need to play some more to get a really good feel for it. (which i don't get to do much, anymore) I took a lot of shopmenu items away to see how the server would react. I don't have much time to just idle in the server and listen to opinions about it. I wanted to see some threads. However, I never really got any. Personally, that tells me that stripping the shopmenu wasn't really a huge issue with players, and that it could stay. However, I wanted to offer the alternative of balancing the prices out that coincides with the dumb amount of cash that is given. I thought maybe it would be fun to have some maps with more powerful players(more cash=more shopitems) and some maps where the players are a bit more scaled down because they don't have the ability to buy as many items.

We have a few options here:.

Keep shopmenu how it is now.

strip shopmenu to what it was previously(subject to small changes): tomes, books, crusaders wish, respawn, health items, sunglasses, ect.

i like #2

While you are looking at item restrictions, infected can buy chain but not health. Chain is arguably MUCH MUCH better than health (if they take 20 bullets to kill, chain = 140 health effectively, often they take much more than 20 bullets in a round) and is cheaper and infected is already tanky enough.

 

I like option #2 best though.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Face

[Serif The Sheriff 73]

 (YA IMA RESTRICT HEALTH SHIT ON NAIX)

Uhhhh, Periapt is already restricted, Chainmail got restricted, LJ is restricted, Mask is restricted, why does Ring need to be restricted? That's dumb.

 

Edit: Also, I would rather have a stripped down version of the shopmenu with the prices back to normal than have to deal with this high priced crap. I think most of the server would agree with that but I think we should make a poll for what items to keep in and then if need be, make a poll for prices so we can get something that everyone agrees on.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Serif The Sheriff