Proposed Lurker change

[Fetterolf 33]

I propose that we change lurkers ultimate to something different and give it the usp-s as the default weapon. Why do we have a ult that does the same thing as a gun in the game when that ult could be used to give the lurker a smoke screen as an escape mechanism or some other skill that would be much more worth while.
 
My proposed ult change is this to give the lurker a small defensive skill
 
Fade into the Shadows (Ultimate) - 5 levels - You drop a smoke bomb at your feet that instantly conceals your escape for 1-5 seconds - +1 second per point 5 seconds at max level - Usable once per round (does the same smoke area as a regular smoke grenade at level 1 and 1.5x smoke grenade area at level 5)

Edited May 11, 2014 by Fetterolf

[Swed 2651]

The USP-S isnt actually completely silent, it still makes a sound. Lurker's ulti removes this sound.

[Daft2thePunk 190]

I still hear the USP-S sound from a lurker.

[Rootbeer 1293]

I like this change. There really isn't a reason to not use the ultimate when youre playing lurker and it's just a hassle to turn it on again after everytime you die. Adding the silenced gun effect to a passive and changing the ult to something else is a great QoL change. If coding's an issue though, i.e. you can only achieve the silenced gun effect through toggling it on, I can understand keeping it the way it is.

[nuggetthenoble 186]

sounds like a nice change imo

[BLiNDBoi 930]

The only reason lurker has an ultimate is because when the race was created the usb-s did not exist in the game. In short it was a work around for not having it...

[Fetterolf 33]

The USP-S isnt actually completely silent, it still makes a sound. Lurker's ulti removes this sound.

in WCS it used the silenced pistol and no one complained about it. Now that we have the USP-S we need to change the ult to something else since there's no point to having a skill that a gun already does. There has to be trade-offs for being 95% invis and decent damage and that's the possibility if you shoot at someone they will hear your gun and kill you. I also do not think the skill completely gets rid of the sound cause I still hear a silenced sound when close to a shooting lurker when they use the P2000 with the ult on. If anyone else has a proposed ult change they think would fit more than mine lets toss them out there so the engineers have more to work with.

 

 

I like this change. There really isn't a reason to not use the ultimate when youre playing lurker and it's just a hassle to turn it on again after everytime you die. Adding the silenced gun effect to a passive and changing the ult to something else is a great QoL change. If coding's an issue though, i.e. you can only achieve the silenced gun effect through toggling it on, I can understand keeping it the way it is.

 

Changing the default gun should take 2 minutes max and hooking the smoke grenade smoke sprite shouldn't take very long either since its something an item in the game already does.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Fetterolf

[Destin 1958]

If the silence needs a toggle then just an ability

[thorgot 2420]

in WCS it used the silenced pistol and no one complained about it. Now that we have the USP-S we need to change the ult to something else since there's no point to having a skill that a gun already does. There has to be trade-offs for being 95% invis and decent damage and that's the possibility if you shoot at someone they will hear your gun and kill you. I also do not think the skill completely gets rid of the sound cause I still hear a silenced sound when close to a shooting lurker when they use the P2000 with the ult on. If anyone else has a proposed ult change they think would fit more than mine lets toss them out there so the engineers have more to work with.

 

 

 

Changing the default gun should take 2 minutes max and hooking the smoke grenade smoke sprite shouldn't take very long either since its something an item in the game already does.

In WCS, it used the silenced pistol and the damage skill was split into two: one which dealt a constant of 7 damage plus 10% of the damage dealt, and the other which dealt between 1 and 5 damage plus 10% of the damage dealt. There was no ultimate. The current ultimate completely eliminates the gun fire animation for others and adds a very quiet gunshot noise. This is quieter than the USP-S and also removes the movement of the gun. I do agree that this is somewhat redundant now that there is an actual silenced pistol. Nobody complained about the lack of an ultimate back then, though.

 

On the topic of your proposed ultimate, it's great that you've done the research and know that hooking the smoke grenade "sprite" won't take very long. However, I have read smoke grenade effect is created client-side in CSGO, unlike in CS:S where it is an env_particlesmokegrenade entity. Because of this, my current thought is that spawning an actual smoke grenade is the best approach. To do this, I'd have to print out a lot of net prop values from the smoke grenade as it is thrown so I know what entity values to set. Then, it's entirely possible that spawning live grenades is impossible and the whole experiment will fail. Is this the hooking you know to be so easy? If so, please let me know what the values are to save me a few hours. Here is the net prop dump for a smoke grenade. As you can see, it is very short. Please let me know what values the game set during your experiment.

 

CSmokeGrenade (type DT_SmokeGrenade) Table: baseclass (offset 0) (type DT_BaseCSGrenade)  Table: baseclass (offset 0) (type DT_WeaponCSBase)   Table: baseclass (offset 0) (type DT_BaseCombatWeapon)    Table: baseclass (offset 0) (type DT_BaseAnimating)     Table: baseclass (offset 0) (type DT_BaseEntity)      Table: AnimTimeMustBeFirst (offset 0) (type DT_AnimTimeMustBeFirst)       Member: m_flAnimTime (offset 108) (type integer) (bits 8)      Member: m_flSimulationTime (offset 112) (type integer) (bits 8)      Member: m_cellbits (offset 708) (type integer) (bits 5)      Member: m_cellX (offset 712) (type integer) (bits 10)      Member: m_cellY (offset 716) (type integer) (bits 10)      Member: m_cellZ (offset 720) (type integer) (bits 10)      Member: m_vecOrigin (offset 724) (type vector) (bits 5)      Member: m_nModelIndex (offset 194) (type integer) (bits 11)      Table: m_Collision (offset 240) (type DT_CollisionProperty)       Member: m_vecMins (offset 8) (type vector) (bits 0)       Member: m_vecMaxs (offset 20) (type vector) (bits 0)       Member: m_nSolidType (offset 34) (type integer) (bits 3)       Member: m_usSolidFlags (offset 32) (type integer) (bits 12)       Member: m_nSurroundType (offset 42) (type integer) (bits 3)       Member: m_triggerBloat (offset 35) (type integer) (bits 8)       Member: m_vecSpecifiedSurroundingMins (offset 44) (type vector) (bits 0)       Member: m_vecSpecifiedSurroundingMaxs (offset 56) (type vector) (bits 0)      Member: m_nRenderFX (offset 192) (type integer) (bits 8)      Member: m_nRenderMode (offset 193) (type integer) (bits 8)      Member: m_fEffects (offset 172) (type integer) (bits 14)      Member: m_clrRender (offset 196) (type integer) (bits 32)      Member: m_iTeamNum (offset 780) (type integer) (bits 6)      Member: m_iPendingTeamNum (offset 784) (type integer) (bits 6)      Member: m_CollisionGroup (offset 336) (type integer) (bits 5)      Member: m_flElasticity (offset 452) (type float) (bits 0)      Member: m_flShadowCastDistance (offset 816) (type float) (bits 12)      Member: m_hOwnerEntity (offset 332) (type integer) (bits 21)      Member: m_hEffectEntity (offset 800) (type integer) (bits 21)      Member: moveparent (offset 228) (type integer) (bits 21)      Member: m_iParentAttachment (offset 225) (type integer) (bits 6)      Member: m_iName (offset 216) (type string) (bits 0)      Member: movetype (offset 226) (type integer) (bits 4)      Member: movecollide (offset 227) (type integer) (bits 3)      Member: m_angRotation (offset 736) (type vector) (bits 13)      Member: m_iTextureFrameIndex (offset 512) (type integer) (bits 8)      Member: m_bSimulatedEveryTick (offset 513) (type integer) (bits 1)      Member: m_bAnimatedEveryTick (offset 514) (type integer) (bits 1)      Member: m_bAlternateSorting (offset 515) (type integer) (bits 1)      Member: m_bSpotted (offset 888) (type integer) (bits 1)      Member: m_bIsAutoaimTarget (offset 180) (type integer) (bits 1)      Member: m_fadeMinDist (offset 804) (type float) (bits 0)      Member: m_fadeMaxDist (offset 808) (type float) (bits 0)      Member: m_flFadeScale (offset 812) (type float) (bits 0)      Member: m_nMinCPULevel (offset 516) (type integer) (bits 3)      Member: m_nMaxCPULevel (offset 517) (type integer) (bits 3)      Member: m_nMinGPULevel (offset 518) (type integer) (bits 3)      Member: m_nMaxGPULevel (offset 519) (type integer) (bits 3)     Member: m_nForceBone (offset 904) (type integer) (bits 8)     Member: m_vecForce (offset 908) (type vector) (bits 0)     Member: m_nSkin (offset 920) (type integer) (bits 10)     Member: m_nBody (offset 924) (type integer) (bits 32)     Member: m_nHitboxSet (offset 928) (type integer) (bits 2)     Member: m_flModelScale (offset 932) (type float) (bits 0)     Table: m_flPoseParameter (offset 988) (type m_flPoseParameter)      Member: 000 (offset 0) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 001 (offset 4) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 002 (offset 8) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 003 (offset 12) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 004 (offset 16) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 005 (offset 20) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 006 (offset 24) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 007 (offset 28) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 008 (offset 32) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 009 (offset 36) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 010 (offset 40) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 011 (offset 44) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 012 (offset 48) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 013 (offset 52) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 014 (offset 56) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 015 (offset 60) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 016 (offset 64) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 017 (offset 68) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 018 (offset 72) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 019 (offset 76) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 020 (offset 80) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 021 (offset 84) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 022 (offset 88) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 023 (offset 92) (type float) (bits 11)     Member: m_nSequence (offset 984) (type integer) (bits 12)     Member: m_flPlaybackRate (offset 936) (type float) (bits 8)     Table: m_flEncodedController (offset 1084) (type m_flEncodedController)      Member: 000 (offset 0) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 001 (offset 4) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 002 (offset 8) (type float) (bits 11)      Member: 003 (offset 12) (type float) (bits 11)     Member: m_bClientSideAnimation (offset 1100) (type integer) (bits 1)     Member: m_bClientSideFrameReset (offset 1101) (type integer) (bits 1)     Member: m_bClientSideRagdoll (offset 576) (type integer) (bits 1)     Member: m_nNewSequenceParity (offset 1104) (type integer) (bits 3)     Member: m_nResetEventsParity (offset 1108) (type integer) (bits 3)     Member: m_nMuzzleFlashParity (offset 1113) (type integer) (bits 2)     Member: m_hLightingOrigin (offset 1116) (type integer) (bits 21)     Table: serveranimdata (offset 0) (type DT_ServerAnimationData)      Member: m_flCycle (offset 980) (type float) (bits 15)     Member: m_flFrozen (offset 1140) (type float) (bits 0)     Member: m_ScaleType (offset 940) (type integer) (bits 32)     Member: m_bSuppressAnimSounds (offset 1112) (type integer) (bits 1)    Table: LocalWeaponData (offset 0) (type DT_LocalWeaponData)     Member: m_iPrimaryAmmoType (offset 1232) (type integer) (bits 8)     Member: m_iSecondaryAmmoType (offset 1236) (type integer) (bits 8)     Member: m_nViewModelIndex (offset 1208) (type integer) (bits 1)     Member: m_bFlipViewModel (offset 1320) (type integer) (bits 8)     Member: m_iWeaponOrigin (offset 1324) (type integer) (bits 32)    Table: LocalActiveWeaponData (offset 0) (type DT_LocalActiveWeaponData)     Member: m_flNextPrimaryAttack (offset 1212) (type float) (bits 0)     Member: m_flNextSecondaryAttack (offset 1216) (type float) (bits 0)     Member: m_nNextThinkTick (offset 168) (type integer) (bits 32)     Member: m_flTimeWeaponIdle (offset 1248) (type float) (bits 0)    Member: m_iViewModelIndex (offset 1220) (type integer) (bits 11)    Member: m_iWorldModelIndex (offset 1224) (type integer) (bits 11)    Member: m_iState (offset 1228) (type integer) (bits 2)    Member: m_hOwner (offset 1204) (type integer) (bits 21)    Member: m_iClip1 (offset 1240) (type integer) (bits 8)    Member: m_iClip2 (offset 1244) (type integer) (bits 8)   Member: m_weaponMode (offset 1452) (type integer) (bits 1)   Member: m_fAccuracyPenalty (offset 1456) (type float) (bits 0)   Member: m_fLastShotTime (offset 1524) (type float) (bits 0)   Member: m_iRecoilIndex (offset 1468) (type integer) (bits 32)   Member: m_flAnimTime (offset 0) (type integer) (bits 0)   Member: m_nSequence (offset 0) (type integer) (bits 0)   Member: m_hPrevOwner (offset 1488) (type integer) (bits 21)   Member: m_bBurstMode (offset 1472) (type integer) (bits 1)   Member: m_bReloadVisuallyComplete (offset 1473) (type integer) (bits 1)  Member: m_bRedraw (offset 1531) (type integer) (bits 1)  Member: m_bIsHeldByPlayer (offset 1532) (type integer) (bits 1)  Member: m_bPinPulled (offset 1533) (type integer) (bits 1)  Member: m_fThrowTime (offset 1536) (type float) (bits 0)  Member: m_bLoopingSoundPlaying (offset 1540) (type integer) (bits 1)

[Fetterolf 33]

I'd be fine with the lurker going back to the exact same as WCS without an ult if we give it the USP-S. It will do a bit more damage than it does now unless it still just does base damage with no +% damage.

 

If the smoke sprite is hard could you try to create a fog entity at player position if CSGO has that ability? Would it be possible to use env_particlesmokegrenade to attempt to recreate the smoke effect not sure if CSGO uses that or not or it just completely not possible because its client side?

 

Something like this but I could be completely wrong as I do not have much coding experience

new Float:fadestart = 10.0; new Float:fadeend = 15.0; new SmokeIndex = CreateEntityByName("env_particlesmokegrenade"); if (SmokeIndex != -1) {     SetEntProp(SmokeIndex, Prop_Send, "m_CurrentStage", 1);     SetEntPropFloat(SmokeIndex, Prop_Send, "m_FadeStartTime", fadestart);     SetEntPropFloat(SmokeIndex, Prop_Send, "m_FadeEndTime", fadeend);     DispatchSpawn(SmokeIndex);     ActivateEntity(SmokeIndex);     TeleportEntity(SmokeIndex, grenade_pos, NULL_VECTOR, NULL_VECTOR); } 

Edited May 11, 2014 by Fetterolf

[thorgot 2420]

Perhaps you misunderstood. When I said the "smoke grenade effect is created client-side in CSGO, unlike in CS:S where it is an env_particlesmokegrenade entity", what I meant was that the smoke grenade effect is created client-side in CSGO, unlike in CS:S where it is an env_particlesmokegrenade entity. I'm not sure how you managed to get "the smoke grenade effect can be created with an env_particlesmokegrenade entity" from that.

[xmen 983]

Thorgot laying down the facts <3

[Fetterolf 33]

could you use func_dustcloud or is that something that can only be used in the SDK?

[MrCoolness 547]

will this not work?

 

TE_SetupSmoke(const Float:pos[3], Model, Float:Scale, FrameRate)

[BLiNDBoi 930]

will this not work?

 

TE_SetupSmoke(const Float:pos[3], Model, Float:Scale, FrameRate)

 Oh man, the things I would put into those parameters muwahahaha!

[skitt 1307]

Yo this guys trying to buff lurker. I like lurker the way he be

[thorgot 2420]

will this not work?

 

TE_SetupSmoke(const Float:pos[3], Model, Float:Scale, FrameRate)

Not the same type of smoke, I don't think.

[Rayne 4478]

Isn't it possible to create a different smoke effect, mixing it with a similar ultimate to archimonde? 

 

What I mean by this is, an actual escape, 100% invis for 2-3 seconds, allowing the Lurker to completely move position without being able to cause harm, whilst creating a smoke/similar effect in your original position.

 

This wouldn't be OP, might make Lurker slightly easier to play for people that aren't BUTTER.

[Fetterolf 33]

Yo this guys trying to buff lurker. I like lurker the way he be

Not trying to buff it at all just trying to get rid of a useless ultimate and give it something useful. I have already said I don't care if they remove the ult and just give it the same skills it had on WCS I just don't see why the ult does the same thing a gun can do.

[thorgot 2420]

It already has exactly the same skills it had in WCS. The damage skill combines the damage from the two skills in WCS.

[Rayne 4478]

Isn't it possible to create a different smoke effect, mixing it with a similar ultimate to archimonde? 

 

What I mean by this is, an actual escape, 100% invis for 2-3 seconds, allowing the Lurker to completely move position without being able to cause harm, whilst creating a smoke/similar effect in your original position.

 

This wouldn't be OP, might make Lurker slightly easier to play for people that aren't BUTTER.

[BLiNDBoi 930]

It already has exactly the same skills it had in WCS. The damage skill combines the damage from the two skills in WCS.

With the exception of the ultimate you mean.

[thorgot 2420]

With the exception of the ultimate you mean.

Which was a function of the gun back then as opposed to a skill, yes.

[SpiritBearr 7]

imo make lurker ult no fall dmg for short period of time, but this change is cool to

also please buff ranger and devil servant, pls also nurf hand of god as it is op as fck

[にがもん 2]

IMO what we should do if we are going to change it is this.

 

1) Give it a gun that cannot be silenced

2) When the gun is not silence give it bonus damage or something like that

3) When you silence it you lose that bonus damage in turn for silence.