In Regards to the Community.

[Skotti 2105]

imo we should have atleast 1 girl. but that doesnt mean you guys just choose one out of our members. if no girl staff means we have a full capable staff then it shall be.

[Prosak 683]

Personally, I don't support any woman for a leadership position. They are too emotional. I can see a woman dropping the "ban hammer" whenever "aunt flo" comes to town.

my view exactly

[Empire 30]

Alright, before i Sign this. I want to know why Noire was kicked out of his Staff Position.

From my experience, he's done more work than Lesbian Dad (whom I've personally not seen do anything, maybe he does stuff on JB, ZE, ZM, or behind the scenes on the forums)

Noire has a problem with Pebbz, Pebbz has a problem with Noire - Sure this is a problem, but they should work it out between themselves, not kick a staff member out because of it.

Noire hates Cassboys/Darko. Well... all of us hate somebody. Just because he found some proof that Cassboys had been treated differently and pounced on it doesn't mean he should lose his staff. @ Darko, he's really twichy and really good. I even think he's pretty iffy sometimes.

Noire has done a LOT of work in WCS2, and lended a nice helping hand in WCS1. Also, he's handled lots of complaints about wallers/hackers/etc.

All in all, from where I'm standing, I'm seeing a good Staff member getting kicked out of his position because of other people's personal matters. Just other staff members not liking the other's attitudes or not agreeing with them. Is this Staff now going to kick fellow members who don't 'stay in line'?

[apathy 1]

Tip of the iceberg empire

[Empire 30]

i was just questioning one part of it... not really the tip but if that's how you think about it then oh well

anyway, i am now in the know.

[Pebbz. 953]

I wish everyone would be like Empire and just talk to a staff before blurting out anything that comes to mind.

[Formerly known as Karma 0]

I wish everyone would be like Empire and just talk to a staff before blurting out anything that comes to mind.

Free speech.

[Pebbz. 953]

Free speech.

Sure, I'm not stopping you, but getting both sides of the story *may* change your opinion.

[Formerly known as Karma 0]

Or it wont.

[Empire 30]

first off, this isn't america this is sG. there is no such thing as free speech

think back to school. you don't have free speech in elementery/middle/high school (even when you're 18) and those are in America. Same rules apply here. Since we apply for this community to get in, they can have whatever rules they want, even suspending the right of free speech.

[Chaos 2]

and this is why everyone cheered when you left.

I nominate Organik for staff.

And maybe Sammy...

Because we need another girl now that Chaos is gone

So it looks like we're not sexist

Even though half the clan hates gurlz.

Lol I'm sure half of these guys love girls.

[Moose 4890]

There's not point in just 'filling' staff with people (Not saying samm would be bad for this, I Hardly know her) just 'because we need a girl' or whatever. It is not their job to make it look like we're 'not sexist' it's their job to make sure things run smoothly, servers work, and forums are moderated. If that means all guy staff, whatever, at least stuff gets done.

and girls in power during that time of month is a bad idea. could only imagine a president PMSing =/

[Beerman1555 0]

Why do you think Hillary Clinton didnt become president? *PMS* "FML...." *BEEEP* (Nuclear Warfare iminent in T-Minus :10)

Just a joke ladies calm down

[Moose 4890]

Well back on topoic of trolling, I was thinking about what some people have asked, for specific clarifications on what trolling is, what needs to be done etc. I think it's not necissarily "This is trolling don't do it", but it needs to be looked at in individual cases. For instance, if I'm not thinking about what I type, and it's stupid, if someone calls me out on it and makes fun of me. I'll laugh at it too. But then on the other side, if someone comes into a thread, just completly raging on me for absolutely no reason, I'm going to get mad back. So here's what I'd say, if someone throws in the occasional comment that people laugh at, that's fine. But if it's something that causes problems, or derails a thread, then those are the times, things need to be punished for.

[Kaleidoscopic 0]

Okay, I've only been a part of this community for about six months, so I obviously don’t know about every single thing that has happened or is going on currently. However, I do have some opinions on how we can make our clan more stable:

1: A Strict Constitution

What we've followed in the past has only been a loose set of guidelines that no one really cares about. That alone has caused most of our problems. We need to lay down a concrete set of rules that can be broken by no one, under any circumstances. This will especially apply to our Affairs department, since that's the one that causes us the most trouble.

We've tried to make individual decisions on every different situation, almost always heavily influenced by the staff members' relationships with the person at hand. We can't do this, it just doesn't work in an internet community. I think someone earlier mentioned a site (eGo? I can't remember) that strictly enforced all of their rules. That works because everyone there knows that they have to follow the rules, or they leave. I'm not saying that we have to have as strict of rules as they do, but I do think that we should enforce ours just as much.

I don't care if we permanently post this "Constitution" to the front page of our forums, but we have to make sure that everyone knows it. Also, we have to make sure that our Affairs staff (or whatever it ends up being, I'll get to that in a minute) does ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING by the book, no exceptions.

The Constitution will only be able to be amended by popular vote. Possibly we can use the same petition system that I describe later to propose an amendment, and if a petition has enough signatures, it will be put on a monthly/bimonthly ballot for a final vote.

2: Abolish the Affairs Department

No one in this clan is impartial, it is impossible. And even if someone makes a constant conscious effort to remain impartial, they will still have an unconscious bias to one side or another. There is only one way that I can think of to solve this, and I am completely aware that it is not perfect. Hell, I don't even know if it will work at all. But at this point, I think that it is our best option.

We need to make Affairs a democracy.

*Gasp*

This way, there is no one or few people to blame for decisions that are made in this area. If all sG members would be able to vote on bans, we would have much more unanimity on our decisions. To propose a ban, a person could begin a petition in a new thread. The petition would have to get 25 (or whatever) votes, with opposing votes counting negatively like in recruitment, to get a person banned. A person must have a legitimate reason for being banned, not just because of dislike or vendetta. The length of the ban will be determined by the guidelines in the Constitution.

Despite the title, we will probably still have to have some sort of Affairs department. However, they will be more like Forum Moderators, holding little of the power that they do now. They will determine whether or not the ban petition is acceptable, and will explain why or why not.

EDIT: I forgot to add this before, but the limited Affairs staff should be able to make smaller, less important decisions, like blatant hackers on the servers and direct violations to other server/forum rules. Basically only week or longer bans will use the democratic process. This will reduce inefficiency.

3: Make our staff more transparent

This is basically what Zachmanman said earlier. Normal members don’t have a chance of knowing what the hell is going on if the staff continues to be as private as they are now. I’m not entirely sure of how to do this…. But here are some ideas.

First fucking thing, we need to get the ban list back up. It is absolutely unacceptable for people to not know why others are banned.

Second, there needs to be monthly financial updates. Don’t get me wrong, I think Coinstar is being responsible with his duties, but we still need that transparency for his work to remain legitimate.

Next, we should open the staff forums for community members to read, but not be able to post. Also, I don’t know if this is possible, but if we can we should open all parts of Vent for everyone to hear, but only select people to talk.

I think that if we incorporate most or all of these ideas, our community will run much more smoothly and efficiently than ever before. I have neglected several different aspects that still need some straightening up (admin abuse, and definition of trolling mostly), but I feel like I have covered all of the most important bases.

[Howard Dean 2502]

Very well said kaleidoscopic.

Except on the affairs thing.

[Guest Hardcoreiswindows98]

I think each server should have 3 memebers to run it, 2 affairs and a tech, and they worry about that server ONLY. This means they deal with complaints with that server ONLY. We should have one or two head techies to deal with the ftps, forums, ect ect.

Everything NEEDS TO BE WRITTEN in reguards to votes, and all votes should include both Staff and Community. The Community should be able to elect people every year into positions in the staff that deal with the community. By this i mean, general server rules including the CSS servers, the Forums, the Vent Server, ect ect. The PiP regulations, things like that. If we have like 5 people with this, there will never be a tied vote, and these people are the extension of the community.

[Zachmanman 877]

I disagree with abolishing the complaint dept

theres a reason democracies aren't used, too many common folk are dumb as fuck, and it would be very inefficient

hell we can barely get enough people to vote on recruitment apps

[Moose 4890]

There's a problem with having a complete staff revote each year based on community. Even though someone might be 'mature' and everything, they don't know how to run servers, the forums etc. This would really only work for affair type staff, which would be alright. My proposal as to voting in staff, the staff gives some options, community votes on them. something like that. Anyways. Stuff does need to be written, and ALL who go against it, are punished in the same manner, maybe even worse if you're staff, seeing as you're supposed to be the leaders of the community.

[Formerly known as Karma 0]

first off, this isn't america this is sG. there is no such thing as free speech

think back to school. you don't have free speech in elementery/middle/high school (even when you're 18) and those are in America. Same rules apply here. Since we apply for this community to get in, they can have whatever rules they want, even suspending the right of free speech.

I lol'd so fucking hard at your post. Wow fuck I can't stop laughing!!!

[Rayne 4478]

/signed

If members can't get away with breaking the rules, I don't see why staff members should. As for the trolls, its about time something was finally done about them.

Also, a little confusion in the thread, why are people such as Junzou, Mr Clickerson, Fohacidal and Pheonix banned? I couldn't be bothered reading about 15 of the last pages so I may have missed it.

[Howard Dean 2502]

Junzou - Trolling in http://www.syndicate-gamers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26371

Fohacidal - Multiple areas of trolling

Clickerson - Refusal to give up who is leaking staff information

Phoenix - Proof that he is one of the people who started/participated in the chaos 4 chan thread.

[Kaleidoscopic 0]

I disagree with abolishing the complaint dept

theres a reason democracies aren't used, too many common folk are dumb as fuck, and it would be very inefficient

hell we can barely get enough people to vote on recruitment apps

I see your point. I made a change to reduce inefficiency which I meant to include in the first place, but that doesn't solve the "dumb as fuck" problem, which I completely agree with. However, I hope that with more transparency, and perhaps only allowing L2 or L3's or higher to vote, people will be more informed.

Also, maybe require a combined voting quotia for affairs and recruitment, in order to recieve rank promotion, or even retain membership to the community? And allow people to abstain so they don't just vote to meet their quotia.

[Guest formerlyaeth]

Junzou - Trolling in http://www.syndicate-gamers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26371

Fohacidal - Multiple areas of trolling

Clickerson - Refusal to give up who is leaking staff information

Phoenix - Proof that he is one of the people who started/participated in the chaos 4 chan thread.

How many of these are permanent?

[Howard Dean 2502]

Junzou - Day

Fohacidal - Day

Clickerson - 4-5 Days

Phoenix - Perm.