Culture of sG

[Dakota 4722]

1 hour ago, Wolfshade said:

I like This post But i have a problem with the Sean topic. Sean made a mistake thats gonna happen But also When do you actually see mistakes from our RO's? Its Very rare and i think the current RO's Do a good Job.

Sean didn't make a mistake though. Krony or others went around telling people everybody got a badge, then got butthurt when he didn't get one. Pretty straight forward. 

[turbulance 105]

My only opinion on the sG culture is bias, bad attitudes, favoritism, and lack of motivation. It is something that all communities deal with and is a major part of any large community. Older members become jaded or stagnant on their duties, friends will always be bias to other friends in some way or the other. sG does have a big issue with people being overly aggressive and when they do wrong or hurt feelings they tell you to suck it up and take no blame hell I have done that. Over the years I have become more mellow and relaxed having a woman and three kids will do that to you in some areas. All in all I like sG or I wouldn't have finally joined it. Does it have flaws and issues yes, is it a horrible place to be, I don't think so. My biggest issue is the bullying that happens I have personally over the years seen so many members be bullied the point of quiting their favorite games, servers, and obviously the guild/clan. The ambiguous don't say the N word or be a raciest but lets say it to each other in admin chat and discord teehee kinda mentality. I miss the forum nazis like Golden Tongue to keep peoples posts in grammatical order god knows he would foam at the mouth reading how I typed this.

 

TL;DR

sG isn't perfect no one should expect it to be, BUT some things do need to change.  

[The Ben 187]

2 hours ago, Wolfshade said:

I like This post But i have a problem with the Sean topic. Sean made a mistake thats gonna happen But also When do you actually see mistakes from our RO's? Its Very rare and i think the current RO's Do a good Job.

Everyone’s gonna make mistakes but that’s ok because then we’ll build off those mistakes and remember not to do them again

[Agent 22]

32 minutes ago, turbulance said:

My biggest issue is the bullying that happens I have personally over the years seen so many members be bullied the point of quiting their favorite games, servers, and obviously the guild/clan. The ambiguous don't say the N word or be a raciest but lets say it to each other in admin chat and discord teehee kinda mentality. I miss the forum nazis like Golden Tongue to keep peoples posts in grammatical order god knows he would foam at the mouth reading how I typed this.

 

TL;DR

sG isn't perfect no one should expect it to be, BUT some things do need to change.  

Can't agree more tbh. I made the decision years back to not become a member because I wasn't a big fan of the multitude of small cliques, that were very occasionally on the toxic side to first timers on the server, or just others like me who didn't have any friends in the community and just played solo. I feared that if I ended up joining with enough time I'd just be sucked into that whole mess myself. I found it rather ironic when I began playing warcraft source that it seemed rules were to be followed, unless you were a staff member and your motives were "jokingly". I tried asking about the issue and just got turned away by higher ups that seemed to not give a damn. Granted this was many years ago, and I've mostly avoided the forums since then except to check to see the occasional change log.

[SpartanSakaro 1977]

54 minutes ago, Agent said:

I found it rather ironic when I began playing warcraft source that it seemed rules were to be followed, unless you were a staff member and your motives were "jokingly". I tried asking about the issue and just got turned away by higher ups that seemed to not give a damn. Granted this was many years ago, and I've mostly avoided the forums since then except to check to see the occasional change log.

 

1 hour ago, turbulance said:

My biggest issue is the bullying that happens I have personally over the years seen so many members be bullied the point of quiting their favorite games, servers, and obviously the guild/clan. The ambiguous don't say the N word or be a raciest but lets say it to each other in admin chat and discord teehee kinda mentality. I miss the forum nazis like Golden Tongue to keep peoples posts in grammatical order god knows he would foam at the mouth reading how I typed this.

 

TL;DR

sG isn't perfect no one should expect it to be, BUT some things do need to change.  

If you both are seeing these situations where players are breaking rules you can report them in the complaint department or if you are scared you can ask staff directly to deal with it while submitting the needed information and the evidence you have. Honestly i don't understand how people can have an issue with someone else breaking the rules and then do nothing about it other than state "oh this community is so fucked for allowing people to break rules like that".

 

And before anyone says "But sakaro the staph b spooky they will ban me" or even better "the cliques will just defend each other." no they won't, i have been involved in someone/s in staff getting dealt with for breaking rules, and if you want first hand evidence rather than me simply stating this, you can literally go to the admin complaints section of the complaint department and see several cases where people in staff positions have been dealt with for breaking rules.

[trav 6834]

3 minutes ago, SpartanSakaro said:

If you both are seeing these situations where players are breaking rules you can report them in the complaint department or if you are scared you can ask staff directly to deal with it while submitting the needed information and the evidence you have. Honestly i don't understand how people can have an issue with someone else breaking the rules and then do nothing about it other than state "oh this community is so fucked for allowing people to break rules like that".

 

And before anyone says "But sakaro the staph b spooky they will ban me" or even better "the cliques will just defend each other." no they won't, i have been involved in someone/s in staff getting dealt with for breaking rules, and if you want first hand evidence rather than me simply stating this, you can literally go to the admin complaints section of the complaint department and see several cases where people in staff positions have been dealt with for breaking rules.

 

If anything staff is held to a higher standard and thus gets punished swiftly, even if its behind closed doors to be told to knock it off.

[turbulance 105]

You missed the point I was trying to make @Travesty @SpartanSakaro . There is a lot of just casual bullshit that happens and people have reported in the past and people just got their hands slapped or finger waved at them and that is fine I don't honestly care getting people in trouble or losing them rank is not my objective. It is the feeling of uselessness and powerlessness this community gives to its own player base tagged or not. @Face take a look at your War3 admin logs and see all the slapping and admin usage lately a SO for the lols accidently perma'd a guy and that is the kinda stuff I am talking about going into admin tabs to fuck with other players or slap them because you can is bullshit. People get to comfortable with themselves and others then don't realize what kind of message they are sending to casuals or first timers. It is not someones objective to know why or understand the details about what people say or do but have every right to take it at face value ( no puns I promise face ) 

[Agent 22]

You don't think I tried to do something about it when I first encountered it? In my quote I literally said I tried to ask about the issue, but at the time the higher ups I asked didn't care about it, and thus I gave up. As a newcomer at the time the immediate message I got was that you can get away with a lot of bullshit because a) apparently there's more important issues to deal with and b) even if someone does get punished they can come right back like nothing happened. I can pick a bone with Grinch on War3 as an example, I don't know what he was banned for before, but he somehow got unbanned and has been toxic as ever to a lot of people. But in all reality, if people can get unbanned and comeback to being toxic, then there's no point in trying to do anything. There was another player abusing some things on the server (multiple times), so changes were made that people weren't happy about; were they ever banned though? No. And that's just ridiculous.

[trav 6834]

20 minutes ago, turbulance said:

You missed the point I was trying to make @Travesty @SpartanSakaro . There is a lot of just casual bullshit that happens and people have reported in the past and people just got their hands slapped or finger waved at them and that is fine I don't honestly care getting people in trouble or losing them rank is not my objective. It is the feeling of uselessness and powerlessness this community gives to its own player base tagged or not. @Face take a look at your War3 admin logs and see all the slapping and admin usage lately a SO for the lols accidently perma'd a guy and that is the kinda stuff I am talking about going into admin tabs to fuck with other players or slap them because you can is bullshit. People get to comfortable with themselves and others then don't realize what kind of message they are sending to casuals or first timers. It is not someones objective to know why or understand the details about what people say or do but have every right to take it at face value ( no puns I promise face ) 

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I thought your points were valid and agree with the entirety of your first post along with this one.

 

 

[Destin 1958]

Bulk replying cause this is my first time reading the thread since I posted it last night

19 hours ago, Grayson Levi said:

 

 

Tl;Dr: Leave beerman alone a little, staff are normal members still, and staff organization needs work. SO communication needs work too.

 

Also, there definitely is toxicity in the community. I've stopped posting almost completely because if people disagree with what I say it's just far too annoying. There are also much worse people than beerman who are actual cancer instead of doing it for fun.

I'm gunna be 100% transparent here. This thread wasn't really meant to attack Sean or Beerman, they were literally just 2 of the most recent examples of the issues I brought up along side them. I also fucked up cause those quotes are from a PM and I didn't really ask for permission. I just want discussion and change. Your sentence after the Tl;dr just aligns with me so much lmao.

 

15 hours ago, Dakka said:

Where's this toxicity that you're implying exists in our community?

 

All I see are clowns and trolls.

 

Yea that's what I was referring to with the ""eks dee le trolls" and get rid of this roasting culture we've got going on"

6 hours ago, Mark from Facebook said:

 

And I must ask aswell, Destin, given how you have said yourself - You've tried out three other communties prior to comming back to sG. If we are such a toxic community, and so unwelcoming, what made you come back? Why didn't you just stay where you were? 

Cause fuck that man, I put too much time, effort, money, and care into this bitch. Realized it about 3 hours after getting day 1 staff at tW.

 

5 hours ago, Wolfshade said:

I like This post But i have a problem with the Sean topic. Sean made a mistake thats gonna happen But also When do you actually see mistakes from our RO's? Its Very rare and i think the current RO's Do a good Job.

See the Grayson post, but yea I agree that's why I brought up the communication and lack of counseling/guidance issue. I don't want the guy demoted over a fuckin badge lmao. I just want an environment on staff where someone can say "Hey I think you handled that wrong, giving them the badges is the right thing to do here." 

 

Lots of good points and some unnecessary ones.

 

Recruitment and Ranks are fine the way they are. The month long wait is a probation period for recruits. See: Console. And with Ranks, I see no need for a change other than needing more people voting.

 

God no, just make it easier to JP people like console. I like how Ranks are, I just don't like how you either get JP'd or banned. I think adding a possibility of being demoted from Vet to L5 makes it easier to react when someone doesnt something kinda fucked up but not enough to be JP'd or banned, and I actually like how recruitment works besides the one month thing. I don't wanna directly rip off from another community but maybe something between recruit and regular member if you make it shorter? You're technically in the clan but it's still probationary position, counts toward L2, L3, etc. tenure reqs? As a non-member, on the other side, it seems unnecessarily long.  

 

 

 

 

Eh most of the 2nd page just looks to be pretty constructive discussion. I didn't realize how short my community culture section is, it's literally just the beerman example. I think I was mostly in a hurry just wanted to be done but it made it look more like a personal attack RIP 

 

[Booch 257]

Things need to change that’s probably the big thing here. The problems is you can’t control people and their choices even behind a keyboard they have the same beliefs and ethics they do in real life at least I hope so. I think personally members of staff and the SO team need to pin down on people being toxic for no reason or being rude to new people. Multiple times I’ve had a new guy join War3 and regulars or even people in sG decide to troll him and he leaves and never comes back. If you want more people to come and join the community quit being dicks. Quit letting people that don’t even play on the servers decide who plays or joins anymore. Get staff that truly want to invest time and make servers better and not trying to stick to old ways and be cliquey and dicks to everyone. That’s just my opinion 

[SpartanSakaro 1977]

36 minutes ago, Agent said:

You don't think I tried to do something about it when I first encountered it? In my quote I literally said I tried to ask about the issue, but at the time the higher ups I asked didn't care about it, and thus I gave up. As a newcomer at the time the immediate message I got was that you can get away with a lot of bullshit because a) apparently there's more important issues to deal with and b) even if someone does get punished they can come right back like nothing happened. I can pick a bone with Grinch on War3 as an example, I don't know what he was banned for before, but he somehow got unbanned and has been toxic as ever to a lot of people. But in all reality, if people can get unbanned and comeback to being toxic, then there's no point in trying to do anything. There was another player abusing some things on the server (multiple times), so changes were made that people weren't happy about; were they ever banned though? No. And that's just ridiculous.

No one who gets punished simply comes back as if nothing happened. If you fuck up 6 times you are permanently banned, if you fuck up 4 times, all of them being the same thing you are permanently banned. The person you are talking about seems like they have not learned their lesson, report them so they can get a nice permanent ban. Also asking around and actually reporting are two different things.

EX: @Travesty saying he will suck dick, is different from, @Travesty actually sucking dick.  One has no actual merit and anyone can say those words, but him actually going through sucking dick takes time and effort on his part.

 

Also i want to ask you to clarify something because you are talking about this as if you now treat these things differently, but given the fact you are giving a current example would imply that you actually still act and think the same way about the situation. But i could be wrong so please correct me if i am.

[trav 6834]

1 hour ago, Destin said:

God no, just make it easier to JP people like console. I like how Ranks are, I just don't like how you either get JP'd or banned. I think adding a possibility of being demoted from Vet to L5 makes it easier to react when someone doesnt something kinda fucked up but not enough to be JP'd or banned, and I actually like how recruitment works besides the one month thing. I don't wanna directly rip off from another community but maybe something between recruit and regular member if you make it shorter? You're technically in the clan but it's still probationary position, counts toward L2, L3, etc. tenure reqs? As a non-member, on the other side, it seems unnecessarily long.  

 

Is there anyone in the community that deserves a demotion, if not JPd? It's unnecessary.

 

What's the point in making it shorter? Why does it need to be done other than 'it seems long'. What's the rush in getting in?

 

I don't think ranks and recruitment are an issue imo.

 

Now staff accountability is another thing.

 

 

[Destin 1958]

2 minutes ago, Travesty said:

 

Is there anyone in the community that deserves a demotion, if not JPd? It's unnecessary.

 

What's the point in making it shorter? Why does it need to be done other than 'it seems long'. What's the rush in getting in?

It's unnecessary cause we're fucking dead lmao also that's not the point it's a pressure tool maybe oldfags will be less likely to be toxic if they feel like there's actually a punishment, cause why join here if I can go anywhere else and get in within a week of playing on the server for the first time 

[trav 6834]

8 minutes ago, Destin said:

It's unnecessary cause we're fucking dead lmao also that's not the point it's a pressure tool maybe oldfags will be less likely to be toxic if they feel like there's actually a punishment, cause why join here if I can go anywhere else and get in within a week of playing on the server for the first time 

 

If anyone should lose their rank due to toxicity, they should be JP'd. Again it's unnecessary.

 

If someone doesn't want to join our community due to the probation period we have to get quality members then that's on them.

 

Communities with easy membership don't mean it's a good community. Yes we're smaller but I'd argue we have valuable members due to our month long recruitment process. Again I see no real reason in changing it.

 

There are other issues to fix first.

[Destin 1958]

14 minutes ago, Travesty said:

 

If anyone should lose their rank due to toxicity, they should be JP'd. Again it's unnecessary.

 

If someone doesn't want to join our community due to the probation period we have to get quality members then that's on them.

 

Communities with easy membership don't mean it's a good community. Yes we're smaller but I'd argue we have valuable members due to our month long recruitment process. Again I see no real reason in changing it.

 

There are other issues to fix first.

Woah that's actually the dumbest thing I've ever heard, there's no medium? You can just be toxic up until the point where it's bad enough to get JP'd? Alright sure, we just have fundamental differences on how recruitment should work and yours is wrong. I'm just gunna agree to disagree and drop it lmao

[Sandy 2032]

real problem is probably not testing out other games often enough. I remember when people we're trying to get a tf2 server before it went f2p, the response was mostly "eh, were a a mod clan,  we don't do well with vanilla gameplay".

 

either way the only way for the clan to grow at this point would be to try and expand to other games and just hope to get lucky.

 

 

but maybe thats just me.

 

I like sg otherwise i woulda just left.

 

 also @krony is a fucking fake weeb can we get him JP'd

[trav 6834]

26 minutes ago, Destin said:

Woah that's actually the dumbest thing I've ever heard, there's no medium? You can just be toxic up until the point where it's bad enough to get JP'd? Alright sure, we just have fundamental differences on how recruitment should work and yours is wrong. I'm just gunna agree to disagree and drop it lmao

 

We do have warnings, kicks and bans lol... Its unnecessary to demote someone for toxicity if they're not being JP'd. You don't just put in a medium for the fuck of it. Our system works just fine. If our community needs demotions for toxicity, then surely someone deserves it at this point in time. You know since we have no medium and they've been toxic without fear of being punished lol.

 

I think you want shorter recruitment so you can join back in a jiff'! 

[Swed 2651]

3 hours ago, turbulance said:

. @Face take a look at your War3 admin logs and see all the slapping and admin usage lately a SO for the lols accidently perma'd a guy 

Just thought I'd point out that this is impossible, and this is the second time in recent memory I've seen regulars complaining about SOs but refusing to:

1. Submit a complaint in CD with evidence

2. Submit a PM to staff with evidence

3. Name names 

 

What are you guys so afraid of? Retaliation? Or have you decided the correct route to solving issues you have is complain and do nothing? 

[trav 6834]

Just now, Swed said:

 Or have you decided the correct route to solving issues you have is complain and do nothing? 

 

That's toxic and not good customer service to our store

 

As an employee of this business, I urge you to apologize to our customer.

[Bear-Man-Thing 203]

32 minutes ago, Swed said:

Just thought I'd point out that this is impossible, and this is the second time in recent memory I've seen regulars complaining about SOs but refusing to:

1. Submit a complaint in CD with evidence

2. Submit a PM to staff with evidence

3. Name names 

 

What are you guys so afraid of? Retaliation? Or have you decided the correct route to solving issues you have is complain and do nothing? 

War3 players: masters of complaining, while doing nothing to try to fix it

[turbulance 105]

@Swed  @Bear-Man-Thing hey look it's the two assholes who don't like to read and just spew shit out of their mouths like usual. Face has a plugin to look at the admin command log and second I was backing up and just giving an easy example of how people sometimes take things too far or are inconsiderate of new players or people not in the know. I was not attacking anyone or calling anyone out I was not throwing around names I was just giving examples to help elaborate on other peoples issues and concerns. I do try to fix things when I see them as a problem I just don't waste my breath or typing time to talk to either of you two because these are the kind of responses people in general get from both of you. I like both of you in general but BMT ( your newish nickname ) You have a ego problem and you bring it into the server all the time and so do you Swed. No one cares that your old fags around here no one cares about how big you E-peen is. This thread was people venting about frustrations and things that need to change and opinions of whats wrong with the clan as a whole and server by server issue. But nope look at your posts and see how little they contributed to any of the topics at hand or points already established. 

[Sean 3760]

12 minutes ago, turbulance said:

@Swed  @Bear-Man-Thing hey look it's the two assholes who don't like to read and just spew shit out of their mouths like usual. Face has a plugin to look at the admin command log and second I was backing up and just giving an easy example of how people sometimes take things too far or are inconsiderate of new players or people not in the know. I was not attacking anyone or calling anyone out I was not throwing around names I was just giving examples to help elaborate on other peoples issues and concerns. I do try to fix things when I see them as a problem I just don't waste my breath or typing time to talk to either of you two because these are the kind of responses people in general get from both of you. I like both of you in general but BMT ( your newish nickname ) You have a ego problem and you bring it into the server all the time and so do you Swed. No one cares that your old fags around here no one cares about how big you E-peen is. This thread was people venting about frustrations and things that need to change and opinions of whats wrong with the clan as a whole and server by server issue. But nope look at your posts and see how little they contributed to any of the topics at hand or points already established. 

Not to sound like an asshole or anything, but I have never seen a legitimate complaint regarding any SOs or War3 players from yourself or any regulars in War3.

 

That being said, I don't appreciate you calling two contributers to the War3 community assholes. Both of these guys do their job to make War3 a better place, and when you come in here and say that there are problems, while not ever reporting it makes me think twice about your integrity. Seems like you're just complaining to complain at this point. Neither of these fine people have an ego issue.

[Bear-Man-Thing 203]

I am never inconsiderate of new players.  I have never in my time as SO, or before, lashed out against new people on the server.  Like most people on war3, I actually help those that are new and get them to stay on the server.  I slowly give information about the basics, and slowly give them information over multiple rounds as there is a lot of new information they need to soak in.  In my experience with instruction IRL and war3, this is my most effective method.  We regularly active war3 SO's are trying our best to help new people and keep the toxicity down.

 

To find out the mute/gag shit.  It's all on sourcebans.  You are more than welcome to look at all the muting and gagging I've done since I've been SO.  It's not a lot for me, tbh.  

 

If you people don't voice that you find something that you don't like about the server, there is nothing we can do to improve your stay.  Have you said anything before about us using slap/mute/gag/etc before?  No.  Did I know that this was bothering people on the server?  No.  Now that it has come to my attention that it is bothering you, I'll tone down the "flexing my E-peen".  Whenever I gag/mute someone for fun, I 100% of the time remove it.

 

As people have said before, use the CD portion of forums to help us out.  Like the work place, if you don't bring something up with people or their supervisors, how are we to know if we're doing something that you might not appreciate.  Body language is a big thing, we don't have that here.  We only have your voice or text.  How humans communicate is both verbal and non-verbal IRL.  We are limited in our capacity to effectively communicate through our means.

 

I was not only talking about you complaining on the server and not doing anything about it.  That is the war3 population in general.  When I am on the server, I constantly try to pick things up on what people are saying that would be actually useful and could be implemented effectively.  Have I seen any of that?  Nope, because all you guys do is complain about things like maps and bugs that you yourselves don't bother posting about when you KNOW how to post them.  On a type of server that we have, it is a two way street.  If you guys would like to see things changed about the server that isn't just the culture, you HAVE to help us out.  Not just the SO's and one or two regulars.  We need the information when we're not around.

 

If you're not going to voice complaints to two people who are extremely active on the improvement of all of our favorite server in sG, sorry but there's not much I can help you with.  I understand I've gotten a little spry with the mute/gag recently with other SO's and regulars of the server.  For you, I will tone that down to when I was a new SO.

 

No more poking fun from me.  No more fun.

[turbulance 105]

I have complaints in the complaint department from the times I have had issues I go to Face if I have an issue or I go so a Staff member. Like I said I don't go after people in general unless they make it personal. I did not go after either of you as a SO BMT I called you and Swed out for bringing nothing to the table on this post and the way yall seem to have a ego when anyone tries to challenge anything you say or do. I did not call into check your quality as SO's I did not say you needed to lose SO I did not say you don't deserve what you have. This isn't about a no fun allowed I watch you guys slap each other all day and could not give a rats ass. To me it looked like you both didn't even read what I said or the points I was making you just barfed out a reply that made little to no sense in the context of this thread. @Sean sorry to hurt your feelings but if I want to call someone an asshole it's just gonna happen that's life no one here is going to curl up in bed tonight crying to themselves that I called them an asshole. Especially those two. My two cents was about SO's and staffers coming in using admin powers for no reason on random people or a player and laughing about it or doing it for the lols and how it can leave a bad impression on people. I had no pitch fork in my hand and neither did Agent he was just explaining his past experiences about how he TRIED and nothing ever happened and how I can relate to it and so can others. Again read what I actually wrote and put it into the context of the thread and what I have said previously countless times now. But then again I am glad to see everyone is still like the CD is the beginning and ending of solving issues within the clan. The whole damn point was...it isn't