FUCK ME IM #FEELINTHEBERN

[Dr. NarwhalsNumbNuts IV 2291]

I'm loling at Ian's whole point here

 

Please leave the economics to the economists, I'm worried you'll hurt yourself on a supply curve 

[Ian 325]

I can't stand the wait anymore so I'm just going to address Knox's comment. There are 3 big reasons for college debt being so incredibly huge: banks and lenders, the universities, and the students.
 

• Banks and Lenders Giving Out Easy Money

The Obama economy has seen a record of near zero interest rates. Low interest rates gives way to higher spending and higher borrowing. President Obama and President Bush over the 2000s put lots of pressure on banks and lenders to give out loans to people who may not be completely able to pay them off. Getting a student loan is incredibly easy regardless of you or your families income. Since college is such a necessity to young adults getting high paying jobs, these are guaranteed loans in that there will always be someone who will want them. These banks should be holding back on giving out loans because they flood the market with easy money. A high school senior whose family makes $30,000 a year deserves a student loan. A high school senior whose family makes $300,000 a year should not qualify for a government loan. Since getting student loan money is so easy it leads me to the second reason

• Universities Raising Tuition Because You'll Pay It Anyway

The big fact you should take away from a government student loan is that they are forever. If you rack up debt with Home Depot but you cannot pay it back, you could declare bankruptcy and have that debt go away. Student loans don't go away in bankruptcy. They will get their money no matter what. Since the money is guaranteed and customers (or students, either way the student is going to pay the university for a product called a "degree") then universities have no incentive to keep low tuition. Imagine that. You get guaranteed customers who give you guaranteed money. Why should you lower your price? Universities don't just raise tuition for the hell of it, they need justification. They build new stadiums for the football team, new buildings on campuses for the different colleges (god forbid that psychology students study near English majors), and more university employees. Is it any wonder why tuition outpaces inflation? It's all of the free money! Universities would be curbed if students did one thing....

• Students Not Doing Their Research

Have you seen the video of the Bernie supporter who is in debt over $220,000? She supports Bernie because she took out $220,000 in student loans to get a speech pathology degree. Why should I feel sorry for her? The job market is tough, yes, but it's tough for everyone. The average speech pathologist in Texas makes about $75,000 a year. That statistic isn't hidden, it's on salary.com! Two questions you need to ask: why would she major in speech pathology and why would she go to such an expensive school that a speech pathology degree would cost 6 figures? Maybe she's really passionate about speech pathology. Great. We can all admire someone doing something their passionate about. But a university isn't the difference between a job these days. Locally we have doctors who are in debt up to their nose because they spent a shitload on going to fancy schools. Some went to Baylor and owe $250,000 for their biology degree, some went to Yale and owe $190,000 for their English degree, and I went to the University of Texas and owed $40,000. We all have the same job. What did they gain by spending $150,000 more than me? More debt is what they gained. Second part of that question is why would she go to a school that would charge 6 figures for a speech pathology degree. This goes back to my second point. Easy, guaranteed money. The universities love it. Why should they lower their costs.

You think school is expensive now, just wait until it's free. What Bernie Sanders fails to tell you is how he's going to reign in costs at these universities. He's just going to tax us and have that revenue pay for it. Now those of us who made smart decisions with their degree are going to be paying for your mistakes. This is why people who failed college economics are going to vote for Bernie. Free college tuition would be an absolute disaster.

 

13 minutes ago, Dr. NarwhalsNumbNuts IV said:

I'm loling at Ian's whole point here

 

Please leave the economics to the economists, I'm worried you'll hurt yourself on a supply curve 

 

I left the economics to the Bureau of Labor Statistics and they agree with me. Is the government lying to us? Tell me what information you have that the federal government does not.

[Dakota 4722]

Talk Mad Politics

[Dakka 854]

This is some good shit, I'm also a college student with loan debt

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Darren 272]

According to http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0000000001:

There are nearly 15 million more Americans employed now than in 2009/2010.

 

Today's unemployment is half what it was in 2010->http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

 

Number of people laid off and unemployed for over 27 weeks is about 1/3rd what it was in 2010->http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS13008636

 

Well over double the number of job openings now compared to 2009->http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/JTS00000000JOL

 

Establishment deaths are consistently lower now than between 2008 and 2010 ->http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cewbd.t08.htm

 

The one thing you're right on is that nearly 4% fewer people are part of the labor force now than when it was at its height in 2007. It started it's plunge in 2009. It's up since the start of this year. ->http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

 

One of the reasons why the labor force has seen a decline is the retirement of many Baby Boomers. -> https://www.chicagofed.org/publications/chicago-fed-letter/2012/march-296

 

Number of men and women working full-time increased by 1.2 million for men and 1.6 million for women between 2013 and 2014 alone-> https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-157.html

 

The above link also compares the recent demographics of insurance coverage. Needless to say, the rate of uninsured people has gone down. in 2010 about 15-16% of people were uninsured. That number is below 10% now and is continuing to drop fast. One of the criticisms of Obamacare is that it makes private plans more expensive/difficult to get, but coverage under private plans has gone up by 2%, on par with the increase in government plans. One of the most important changes is that about half as many children are uninsured now than they were in 2008->http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo/p60-253.pdf

 

Average weekly earnings per person is up by about $30 since the recession. ->http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0500000012

 

Gas prices were stable at about a dollar per gallon until Bush took office, then they skyrocketed and peaked at 4x that in 2008. Prices plummeted during the recession and climbed back up as the economy stabilized, and over the past 4 years have been going back down. ->http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=EMM_EPMR_PTE_NUS_DPG&f=W

 

Corporate profits after tax has continued to skyrocket since the recession->https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CP

 

Since 2012, the GDP has increased by an average of over 2% per quarter, with the biggest gains being seen in the private sector. There are, however, losses in exports. ->http://bea.gov/scb/pdf/2015/08%20August/0815_2015_annual_nipa_revision.pdf

 

 

I'd put more but I think you get the idea. Just about every area where it counts, we're better off now than we were.

[Knox 1470]

6 hours ago, Ian Kinsler said:

wall of text i didnt fully read

first off

i could care less for any of the candidates running for presidency, only replied to your post because of how actually insane the statement was

i am purely laughing at what you said w/ full context knowing that you were going to respond with some ridiculous shit defending your political views

 

moving on

 

to quote you here directly:

" College debt is the fault of the big banks, lenders, and the students who choose to accept them "

you unironically said on online video game forums in plain text that students trying to further their education are at fault for accepting loans to do so

what are people supposed to do??? just pay the $30,000-$40,000 out of pocket? lmfao mbn to be able to do that

now you're quoting ivy league school tuition and saying "my debt is only x amount" that's cool dude!!!

cmon now

that's only one specific situation you can't generalize shit like that

 

im still laffin

[Ordinarygamer96 785]

Ian ignoring the fact most modern economies have instituted Bernie's policies and since then are supportive of them with no strong movements to end them. If they have existed for decades in countries that have higher standards of living and happiness ratings i think that should day something. Also at the democrats not doing anything good for the country. How about providing basic civil rights to people the republicans voted to block? Keep repeating the fox news dialogue that they invented to try to make sure a republican had a chance in hell off ever making office again. "Free college tuition would be an absolute disaster". Lol no it works in every country its done in. Instead of listening to "experts" on corporate media sites just look at how popular it is where it actually is done. Jodas is german. He's supporting bernie. If a guy who lives in a country that lines up with Bernie's ideas still likes bernie then bernie probably isnt the disaster conservatives go into red alert over.

 

[Prosak 683]

You guys don't understand. We are going to build a wall to keep out all the illegals and make them pay for it. WE ARE GOING TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

[Ian 325]

2 hours ago, Knox said:

first off

i could care less for any of the candidates running for presidency, only replied to your post because of how actually insane the statement was

i am purely laughing at what you said w/ full context knowing that you were going to respond with some ridiculous shit defending your political views

 

moving on

 

to quote you here directly:

" College debt is the fault of the big banks, lenders, and the students who choose to accept them "

you unironically said on online video game forums in plain text that students trying to further their education are at fault for accepting loans to do so

what are people supposed to do??? just pay the $30,000-$40,000 out of pocket? lmfao mbn to be able to do that

now you're quoting ivy league school tuition and saying "my debt is only x amount" that's cool dude!!!

cmon now

that's only one specific situation you can't generalize shit like that

 

im still laffin

 

If you bothered to read what I wrote you would know that I answered that question. Take out loans to schools that give you a real return. That's the whole point. Don't blame people like me because you got a degree from ITT Tech and you aren't making 6 figures. You kids who take out loans to schools you can't afford to earn degrees that don't give you a real return deserve absolutely no sympathy from us working adults. I CAN generalize shit like that because that's how generalizations work. I'm talking to a broad audience, can't address every snowflake like you.

 

I'm laughing too. Can't believe how uninformed some of you are right now.

On 2/25/2016 at 8:15 PM, zhopia said:

I've seen polls claim that if the election came down to Trump vs. Clinton, 64% of people would vote for Trump. Hardly encouraging...

 

However, it seems like I may be misremembering the polls:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

And a handy-dandy comparison chart I found:

http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com/compare/40-70/Hillary-Clinton-vs-Donald-Trump

 

It's mid-April. Presidential polls are not to be taken seriously this early. If we did then we would have had President Romney and President Kerry lol

[Knox 1470]

1 hour ago, Ian Kinsler said:

 

If you bothered to read what I wrote you would know that I answered that question. Take out loans to schools that give you a real return. That's the whole point. Don't blame people like me because you got a degree from ITT Tech and you aren't making 6 figures. You kids who take out loans to schools you can't afford to earn degrees that don't give you a real return deserve absolutely no sympathy from us working adults. I CAN generalize shit like that because that's how generalizations work. I'm talking to a broad audience, can't address every snowflake like you.

didn't know i was arguing with someone who is legally demented

 

who brought up making six figures?

who brought up technical schools?

neither of those things are relevant to our conversation whatsoever

 

also

"you kids" "us working adults" LMFAO you're so full of yourself it's ridiculous

generalizing people who take out different loan amounts with a terrible example because it fits your political agenda is something you can't do without looking like a dipshit

 

i, personally, am making it out of school with roughly $30,000 in loans to pay back

i will have a degree in information systems and operations management

it will easily pay off my loans with any job that i get after graduating

see how the generalization you made is absolutely wrong? i'm almost 100% positive that my situation outweighs whatever shit you're attempting to say

 

can't believe the mental gymnastics you're going through to justify vomiting onto your keyboard and hitting submit reply

 

either way

stop posting

[Darren 272]

1 hour ago, Ian Kinsler said:

Don't blame people like me because you got a degree from ITT Tech and you aren't making 6 figures. You kids who take out loans to schools you can't afford to earn degrees that don't give you a real return deserve absolutely no sympathy from us working adults.

 

In other words "Screw people who want a degree but cant pay for it out of pocket." Because, you know, fuck lower income people who try to get ahead.

 

Also, I second Knox's point about your use of "You kids" and us "working adults". Just a shitty post from you all around, come on man.

[Ordinarygamer96 785]

Ian's just going full fox news retard at this point. Ian hate to break it to you but this isn't 1700's colonial america. Government needs to get involved in stuff in a world like today.And the way you're just blaming people for their problems rather than a system essentially designed to fuck people over for profit shows you really aren't knowledgeable about other countries nor capable of feeling empathy. Nasty socialism making it so noone goes bankrupt from medical problems or attempting to get a higher education. Nasty socialism building trains instead of bombs that'll sit in a warehouse until the next oil well needs to burn. Still waiting for you to respond to darren absolutely destroying you with his actual research

[Dr. NarwhalsNumbNuts IV 2291]

2 hours ago, Ian Kinsler said:

 

If you bothered to read what I wrote you would know that I answered that question. Take out loans to schools that give you a real return. That's the whole point. Don't blame people like me because you got a degree from ITT Tech and you aren't making 6 figures. You kids who take out loans to schools you can't afford to earn degrees that don't give you a real return deserve absolutely no sympathy from us working adults. I CAN generalize shit like that because that's how generalizations work. I'm talking to a broad audience, can't address every snowflake like you.

 

I'm laughing too. Can't believe how uninformed some of you are right now.

 

It's mid-April. Presidential polls are not to be taken seriously this early. If we did then we would have had President Romney and President Kerry lol

This whole condescending tone just baffles me. Those lower skilled jobs are still absolutely necessary to have a functioning economy. For you to say, "fuck you guys, the rich should be able to go to college because they can pay for it, fuck every other pleb that was born into a low income family". Your manner of discussing this whole topic is disgusting and insulting. I agree that $15 for minimum wage is insane, because flipping burgers, while not very prestigious, has a huge demand for it. Pay people enough money so they can support themselves while young, college aged, so they can 1. Go to school 2. Work for that degree 3. pay off loans if needed. But to say, "Oh well fuck you people thinking you deserve more for your serf job", is quite honestly insulting. I worked as a district manager for a company in Cleveland, juggling 7 different properties and their contracts, worth over a quarter million dollars alone, plus summer classes, plus 40 fucking employees that reported to me every. single. day. I got $10/hr for that. It was cheap, it was completely under-paying us for the job we had, while the higher ups sat on their asses. I was lucky that I worked 70 hours a week, plus 10 hours a week at school. Some people can't do that, be it they're raising families, are sick, ect. Fuck you and your self-righteous attitude.

[JMaFia 1317]

Janitor project 2016

[Prosak 683]

After taking the time to read these posts, all I have to say is that you must EARN your admission into college. Just because someone has money to pay for their children to have a good education doesn't mean you have to have the exact same right. It is their money and they have a right to spend it where they please. I for one would not pay for any of you to go to college, but I would pay for my children to receive the best possible education even if it put me in a poor house for 4-6 years. 

 

That being said, if you work hard in school and get good grades you can have your college paid for in full. So maybe you should work harder and stop bitching.

 

BTW J_Mafia, why are you plaguing my life with all this bernie sanders shit. The bastard is gonna die in office.

 

Trump will lead us to glorious future we will take over the world and become Best America!

[Ironic 2278]

I do think that Ian you have taken this a bit too far. However, I get what you're trying to say, you just didn't say it the right way. I've always had the thinking of "well if you seriously can't pay for college/the loans then why go?" but as I believe Darren said I also understand not everyone is financially the same and some people are just trying to get ahead. Now, is it really worth it? Sure you're getting ahead and may start making a lot of money, but after you pay off all those loans, is it worth it? Guess it might just depend on how much you're making.

[Dakota 4722]

Janitor project 2016

Cause he believes in different politics. Damn jmafia. Ruthless.

[Ordinarygamer96 785]

2 hours ago, Ironic said:

I do think that Ian you have taken this a bit too far. However, I get what you're trying to say, you just didn't say it the right way. I've always had the thinking of "well if you seriously can't pay for college/the loans then why go?" but as I believe Darren said I also understand not everyone is financially the same and some people are just trying to get ahead. Now, is it really worth it? Sure you're getting ahead and may start making a lot of money, but after you pay off all those loans, is it worth it? Guess it might just depend on how much you're making.

"Let's allow the system to stay where people from richer families continue to have the best chance of succeeding while poor people can roll the dice and potentially go bankrupt or just give up. But lets not raise taxes on the rich to help pay for things the poor people cant afford". See i know you're not thinking of it like that in your head but that is the end result. Republican style economics just don't allow for general prosperity in a world like today. 

[Darren 272]

4 hours ago, Prosak said:

Just because someone has money to pay for their children to have a good education doesn't mean you have to have the exact same right. It is their money and they have a right to spend it where they please. I for one would not pay for any of you to go to college, but I would pay for my children to receive the best possible education even if it put me in a poor house for 4-6 years.

 

The point is that quality education needs to be accessible to all without saddling poorer students with an inordinate amount of debt. One's income bracket shouldn't determine their chances at life. No one is saying you can't send your kid to Harvard if you wanted, or that you need to pay for others to go to Harvard; what's being said is that public colleges need to be free in the same way that public schools currently are. That is, tax dollars pay for the institution to ensure that society as whole is well-educated. I know that some people think public schools should be abolished because "I don't wanna pay for stuff I don't use. It's MY money!", but as I've explained in another thread: everyone benefits from an educated society and an individual should be expected to support the society that supports them in turn.

[Reaper0470 1123]

Just now, Darren said:

 

The point is that quality education needs to be accessible to all without saddling poorer students with an inordinate amount of debt. One's income bracket shouldn't determine their chances at life. No one is saying you can't send your kid to Harvard if you wanted, or that you need to pay for others to go to Harvard; what's being said is that public colleges need to be free in the same way that public schools currently are. That is, tax dollars pay for the institution to ensure that society as whole is well-educated. I know that some people think public schools should be abolished because "I don't wanna pay for stuff I don't use. It's MY money!", but as I've explained in another thread: everyone benefits from an educated society and an individual should be expected to support the society that supports them in turn.

The ole pay it forward routine. 

[Darren 272]

2 minutes ago, Reaper0470 said:

The ole pay it forward routine. 

 

I don't get it, what's the criticism here?

[Reaper0470 1123]

13 minutes ago, Darren said:

 

I don't get it, what's the criticism here?

Not criticism agreeing. Sorry.

[Yunki 2197]

I guess I'll put my two cents in this issue. I, for about a few months, went back and forth on my views with free education and ultimately I think I'm set on the fact that community college should be free, but not universities. I personally believe we would live in a more productive world if everyone who wanted to get some form of higher education (community college) could. CC is already relatively cheap compared to any University, and I THINK (since I'm young and don't have a career) I would be okay, when I'm older, to pay towards everyone's CC education. I still have some issues with free CC but I believe the pros outweigh the cons. 

 

The pros being: Since anyone who wants to have a higher education through the form of CC can, I would assume our population would become more intelligent overall. SOME, opportunities can open open for CC students once they get an associates degree. This last reason is a slippery slope so don't take it so heavily, it's just something I could see happen: As more people become educated, the more advances in technology we could make; with the advancement of technology, more job opportunities open up; as more job opportunities open up, there will be a decrease in unemployment; a decrease in unemployment is a happy America.

 

The cons: The value of all degrees begin to decrease because of "degree inflation". The rich are paying for a product they are most likely never going to use, and if they plan on using it, they could've paid it with their own money, and not by giving it to the gov't for them to spend (Yes, I see that as a con).

 

Sure, due to degree inflation, those with only CC education won't be able to compete with bachelors, masters, etc. BUT they will be more educated overall and perhaps they can find some use with their education to perhaps open up a business or what not. Let's not forget, most millionaires are self-made. Maybe they have what it takes, with that extra boost from CC, to live the American dream and have a successful business.

 

 

I obviously missed some pros and cons, but the list could go on forever. Those are just the most relevant factors to me.

 

Quote

The point is that quality education needs to be accessible to all without saddling poorer students with an inordinate amount of debt.

What is your definition of quality education? @Darren

[Darren 272]

31 minutes ago, Yunki said:

What is your definition of quality education? @Darren

An education which provides the intellectual tools for a person to excel in their field of choice and contribute to the progression of society.

[Yunki 2197]

53 minutes ago, Darren said:

An education which provides the intellectual tools for a person to excel in their field of choice and contribute to the progression of society.

I hate to nit pick your word choice, but not everyone can excel. By defintion, to excel you must be better than others. Ignoring that though, not everyone needs a full 4 year undergrad education to find success. While I do think it would be great to have a more educated society, at that point, I believe the money would be too much of an issue. So I guess we can agree to disagree on how far we allow individuals to access a free education.