Team NoBlock and Slot Increase Discussion and Poll

[BLiNDBoi 930]

Discussion time: It is quite apparent that we are getting a constant full server of 28 players lately which raises the questions whether if we should consider increases slots and/or placing Team NoBlock on the server. I had some minor discussions with Thorgot about both and I figured we should ask the community of WC3 what they would prefer. I've done some simple votes in server regarding Team NoBlock, all seemed to get over 60% yes with x, yes, no voting options.

 

What is Team NoBlock?

In short, you can move through teammates but not enemies. Very much the same as playing on Valve's casual servers if you want a good reference of what it is. This should not affect Holy Paladin's healing via shooting allies and Warden's mole is already affected by not having the arrow above their head.

 

Why is the server 28 slot?

I heard a couple reasons, first reason was that it caused lag when the server got close to 30 to 32 players. Another reason is some maps we have only can handle 28 players or 14 spawning locations. This for these maps Team NoBlock would make it easier on the admins to unstuck teammates (AKA don't have to do anything).

 

 

 

Vote and let the discussion begin.

Note: Poll is public.

Edited August 20, 2013 by BLiNDBoi

[Wintergreen 1603]

Can we get an idea of how bad the lag would be? Say we try a slot increase for one day.

[driz 2626]

I was on when the slots were changed, we were crashing every 20 minutes or so. Things have seemed pretty smooth to me since the change. Without much insight into the servers here, com past experiences I would say we either need to look at modifying some kennel parameters to increase efficiency or go the easy route and throw more resources at the problem. Obviously there is either going to be a man hour requirement or a monetary requirement to increase the slots without a repeat of history.

I don't care either way about no block so I won't speak to it.

To winter: it wasn't a lag issue, it was the game becoming slow until it had to be restarted. Probably something to do with the tick rate but I don't know for sure

Sent from my HTC VLE_U

Edited August 20, 2013 by driz

[B-cock #1 641]

NoBlock = Yes for me

 

Increased slots looks to be more needed, but it has to be playable. Don't need late WCS1 again.

 

 

 

 

Then buff takeno

Edited August 20, 2013 by B-rock

[BananaPeelz 709]

Definitely yea for no block. Its annoying as hell to be a fast or long jump race then get stuck behind slower teammates at spawn.

[water.exe 725]

No for both I have my own reasons.

[MisterTurkes 544]

ye on the no block and ye on the increase in player slots but as b-rock said has to be playable 

[XIII 149]

To everyone who says no block is good.. you're taking the current system for granted.  If no block is turned on you will all be crying about teammates soaking all of your bullets by walking through you, also you bet there will be some super gay tactics in play.

 

Example, someone goes infected.. get another person to literally follow infected (like 60%+ inside him) as a shield and kill everyone.

 

Lastly the worst thing ever will happen:  grenades getting stuck inside bodies, and getting yourself and team killed and/or flashed/smoked/whatever.

 

There's more, I'm sure, but I just can't think of it right now.

[Oreo 2073]

I was on when the slots were changed, we were crashing every 20 minutes or so. Things have seemed pretty smooth to me since the change. Without much insight into the servers here, com past experiences I would say we either need to look at modifying some kennel parameters to increase efficiency or go the easy route and throw more resources at the problem. Obviously there is either going to be a man hour requirement or a monetary requirement to increase the slots without a repeat of history.

I don't care either way about no block so I won't speak to it.

To winter: it wasn't a lag issue, it was the game becoming slow until it had to be restarted. Probably something to do with the tick rate but I don't know for sure

Sent from my HTC VLE_U

And this is why I've hoped you become an engineer when you(more than likely) get in.

 

Noblock is a no, I see far to many negative things coming from it than good.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Oreo

[Ichalvl 1752]

If the player cap is raised, I don't see it being more than 32 if it is to stay fun. I don't play much but my first race I am leveling is human alliance, and it is the most annoying thing ever when some duckweed runs in front of me when I use my ult

[BLiNDBoi 930]

To everyone who says no block is good.. you're taking the current system for granted.  If no block is turned on you will all be crying about teammates soaking all of your bullets by walking through you, also you bet there will be some super gay tactics in play.

 

Example, someone goes infected.. get another person to literally follow infected (like 60%+ inside him) as a shield and kill everyone.

 

Lastly the worst thing ever will happen:  grenades getting stuck inside bodies, and getting yourself and team killed and/or flashed/smoked/whatever.

 

There's more, I'm sure, but I just can't think of it right now.

 

Go play some casual cs:go for a while, nades will bounce off their body even if they're inside you. Zombie tank, will die really fast AND since when do we have organized strategies or the word teamwork on this server? And about your bullets eating up by allies, already happens without noblock so I don't find that argument to be valid.

[Master Chadron 279]

Add no block for 10 seconds after spawning.

 

Server should stay at 28 players until tick rate problems get solved. It's just gross playing when the server's rates are hovering around 30-40 instead of 102 during peak hours.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Master Chadron

[XIII 149]

Go play some casual cs:go for a while, nades will bounce off their body even if they're inside you. Zombie tank, will die really fast AND since when do we have organized strategies or the word teamwork on this server? And about your bullets eating up by allies, already happens without noblock so I don't find that argument to be valid.

Well I admit I haven't played on casual servers in months so if some of my points aren't even issues anymore then I suppose going for team no block isn't as bad as I thought.

 

True that allies still eat bullets but with no block it'll be 100% more frustrating and I guarantee you that.  Imagine you're in a great position, and about to pop a headshot around the corner but no your ally decides to walk through you right at that time.. and this will happen a lot, especially in small maps like office.  At least with no block off you know when an ally will or will not soak up your shots.

 

& bro obviously the teams need a charismatic leader to get some organized strategy going, I've been MIA without a mic (I miss yelling out commands on cbble, or going "READ TEAM CHAT" and then everyone actually listens and wins the round together) and the ghoulsquad doesn't seem to have as popular a presence anymore

 

Also as a side-note, the zombie tank may or may not have to die fast.. it depends who's tailing him, and how much protection/utility they can offer with their current race.  lol even worse what if zombie is on CT and he just stands on top of an ally defusing the bomb so the enemy team can't stop it

 

EDIT:  SPEAKING OF STANDING ON TOP.. YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO MAKE LADDERS OUT OF PLAYERS WITH NO BLOCK.. CAN'T CROUCH BOOST YOUR ALLIES IF THERE'S NO BLOCK.  SUCH A THING IS MADNESS.

Edited August 20, 2013 by XIII

[Mr_Oob 25]

Totally for no-block. So annoying having longjump or even just bonus speed and being blocked by team mates v.v...

[xmen 983]

No for both.

 

And instead of adding more slots how about war3 #2 server? Shouldn't be too hard to duplicate the current server with just the starter races??? Although we would propably need another engineer for the second server... But anyways would be interesting to see where it would develop.

[Quayle 71]

I said no for both. Think the blocking can actually be some what helpful so we don't get people into the other teams spawn area within 5 seconds.

[iAlwaysFail 799]

Add no block for 10 seconds after spawning.

 

[MrCoolness 547]

Add no block for 10 seconds after spawning.

 

Server should stay at 28 players until tick rate problems get solved. It's just gross playing when the server's rates are hovering around 30-40 instead of 102 during peak hours.

 

this is a horrible idea, I've contemplated the idea but what would happen is that after the 10 seconds when everyone is running to the direction they need to go and no block is turned off, people will get stuck in one another. There's been a lot of discussion in the modding community about resolving this and nothing is as simple as just simply having no block off... if your teammate is blocking you then scream at him with your mic or have some patience. Sometimes its a good thing, sometimes being blocked saves you from that crit nade coming from around the corner.

[BananaPeelz 709]

this is a horrible idea, I've contemplated the idea but what would happen is that after the 10 seconds when everyone is running to the direction they need to go and no block is turned off, people will get stuck in one another. There's been a lot of discussion in the modding community about resolving this and nothing is as simple as just simply having no block off... if your teammate is blocking you then scream at him with your mic or have some patience. Sometimes its a good thing, sometimes being blocked saves you from that crit nade coming from around the corner.

Sometimes it blocks you from escaping that crit nade as well.

[Mimic 3307]

To clarify:

 

1) Collisions are on because they were traditionally on in WCS1. Changing them should be as easy as adding a plugin to the server or changing a cvar.

2) Player slots are at 28 rather than 32 not based on lag (4 players doesn't do much to the server...), but because most maps simply do not have enough spawn positions.

[Ika 320]

Team no-block would be fine, especially at spawn. Temporary no-block would be better but I have a feeling something would go wrong and people would get stuck together, so better to have full team noblock than none.

 

Before server slots are increased the server connection needs to be improved. When 28 people are on the server rates drop to 30-60, pretty stupid for reg.

[xmen 983]

NVM CAN'T DECIDE

Edited August 22, 2013 by xmen

[driz 2626]

for noblock in general, i always find it amusing when people complain that weapons aren't realistic enough in the game and then ask to run through other people...

 

To clarify:

 

1) Collisions are on because they were traditionally on in WCS1. Changing them should be as easy as adding a plugin to the server or changing a cvar.

2) Player slots are at 28 rather than 32 not based on lag (4 players doesn't do much to the server...), but because most maps simply do not have enough spawn positions.

to your #2, im confused, if the crashing was due to lack of spawn positions, why were the first few rounds of a map fine with 32 but as we played progressively longer it got choppier until a restart was needed.?

 

regardless, if we are using maps designed for a specific amount of maps, i agree on bringing back a second war3 server, although i would wait and see what what introducing a wcs server does to the current population before making a decision...   personally, my thought is to tweak the server as much as possible for the time being without introducing additional costs and wait for the inevitable wcs server to come online; things might just naturally balance themselves out? just my thoughts on it.. 

[BLiNDBoi 930]

for noblock in general, i always find it amusing when people complain that weapons aren't realistic enough in the game and then ask to run through other people...

 

to your #2, im confused, if the crashing was due to lack of spawn positions, why were the first few rounds of a map fine with 32 but as we played progressively longer it got choppier until a restart was needed.?

 

regardless, if we are using maps designed for a specific amount of maps, i agree on bringing back a second war3 server, although i would wait and see what what introducing a wcs server does to the current population before making a decision...   personally, my thought is to tweak the server as much as possible for the time being without introducing additional costs and wait for the inevitable wcs server to come online; things might just naturally balance themselves out? just my thoughts on it.. 

The mod itself has massive memory leak issues from my assumption. We still have yet to fix the invisible gun glitch which is totally related to the mod.

[Mimic 3307]

for noblock in general, i always find it amusing when people complain that weapons aren't realistic enough in the game and then ask to run through other people...

 

to your #2, im confused, if the crashing was due to lack of spawn positions, why were the first few rounds of a map fine with 32 but as we played progressively longer it got choppier until a restart was needed.?

 

regardless, if we are using maps designed for a specific amount of maps, i agree on bringing back a second war3 server, although i would wait and see what what introducing a wcs server does to the current population before making a decision...   personally, my thought is to tweak the server as much as possible for the time being without introducing additional costs and wait for the inevitable wcs server to come online; things might just naturally balance themselves out? just my thoughts on it.. 

 

The server was not crashing due to a lack of spawn positions, it was crashing due to random memory leaks and errors from the huge amount of plugins on the server. As you may or may not know, every race on the server is it's own plugin and a lot of buffs, engine hooks...etc have their own plugins. Due to this, War3 is MUCH slower and eats more resources than WCS. With this issue and with servers like Zombie Escape and Jailbreak eating up a lot of the processing power on half of our cores, means that it's unlikely that we would be able to create a second Warcraft 3 server without either optimizing or upgrading our server (as you suggested earlier). Unfortunately, we were planning on upgrading the CPU our gameserver box uses, but the cost of upgrading it was simply too high at the time (~$80/mo).

 

The mod itself has massive memory leak issues from my assumption. We still have yet to fix the invisible gun glitch which is totally related to the mod.

 

The invisible gun glitch is caused by the excessive use of SMLib and SDKHooks. Regular SourceMod plugins do not cause this bug. Unfortunately we simply can't fix this bug on our own.