Keeper of the Grove slight tweak?

[Mr_Oob 25]

Aside from being a not so great race as is Keeper of the Grove suffers from another problem, some of the skills take far too many skill points to make them worth the investment.

 

The two main skills of concern would be the Force of Nature and Thorns Aura skill.

 

Having a weapon available every round is very important, not just for this race, but all of them. This is why players buy crusader's wish every round they can and sometimes even right before the next round with the money they receive at round end. Aside from the extra ammo in the initial clip this skill is saving the player $1k every round... Not too amazing in my book.

 

Thorns Aura gives a percent chance for 25% of the damage taken to be reflected back at the attacker. At lower levels this skill will not be able to reflect much back because of both the low chance and the lack of healing.

 

Both Longjump and the healing over time work well enough with a one or two points into them.

 

The ultimate seems to receive the most interesting responses from the community. Most players explained that one point was more than enough. Some said that the ultimate never seemed to help them, that it wasn't worth putting points into at all. If more skill points actually increase the effectiveness of the ultimate it should be noticeable and feel like a good investment.

 

My suggestion is simple: Instead of skills being maxed at 8 skill points, have them maxed at 4 or 5.

 

Instead of having to spend a majority of your time leveling trying to max one skill to help you stand a chance against other higher level characters that time would instead be spent helping to round out your strengths instead. This would greatly help smooth out the leveling process for keeper and would help the class be a more competitive when it comes to choosing a class to level.

 

dat wall

 

Edit: For more information: Keeper has 5 skills, currently it maxes out all skills at level 40.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Mr_Oob

[BLiNDBoi 930]

Leave it, this server is too easy to max races already.

[Sketchmaticx 3170]

Leave it, this server is too easy to max races already.

 

this. every other race takes like 2 maps at most to level, and this one took me a good 5+, which is good. making it too easy to level races is boring, since you have nothing to work for later on when you have everything maxed.

 

keeper is fine as is. you can have 1 point in everything and only skill the heal and thorns and be set. force of nature is not a good skill to level up first. it is the last skill you should be skilling. the ult is alright but i never find myself using it, simply because the slow is useless to me. longjump is fine with 1 point. 

[xmen 983]

It's fine as it is

[Wintergreen 1603]

Aside from being a not so great race as is Keeper of the Grove suffers from another problem, some of the skills take far too many skill points to make them worth the investment.

Wut...

[Mr_Oob 25]

Wut...

 

ahahaha the picture made me laugh.

 

How many people actually play keeper? Very few in the server... Perhaps the only good skills on it are a high level of throns + the hp regen + 1 pt of longjump. The race itself isn't really great and the ult seems to never work / do much :/.

 

Most people would rather play max human rather than max keeper I bet...

 

this. every other race takes like 2 maps at most to level, and this one took me a good 5+, which is good. making it too easy to level races is boring, since you have nothing to work for later on when you have everything maxed.

 

Main reason I think this races takes longer to max is mainly because the skills it has are rather lackluster / suck.

 

I agree that having some races to level up when you have most maxed is good, but having races that are not fun / massive pain in the ass to level or take way too much time to level is not how you do it. These races are just encouraging players to skip over them or to not even play them at all.

 

Why do people play human / orc / rpg and other popular races? They have good skill synergies / ults and usually can get kills on a consistent basis, sometimes with ease.

 

I suggested changing the max skill levels because the skill synergy is rather low and the ultimate sucks. It is not to help "completionists" to finish the class quickly later, but to help people who are in the leveling process to have a race that is some what good without having to spend a ridiculous time leveling it to be some what effective with it.

[Name 2616]

ahahaha the picture made me laugh.

 

How many people actually play keeper? Very few in the server... Perhaps the only good skills on it are a high level of throns + the hp regen + 1 pt of longjump. The race itself isn't really great and the ult seems to never work / do much :/.

 

Most people would rather play max human rather than max keeper I bet...

 

 

 

 

Main reason I think this races takes longer to max is mainly because the skills it has are rather lackluster / suck.

 

I agree that having some races to level up when you have most maxed is good, but having races that are not fun / massive pain in the ass to level or take way too much time to level is not how you do it. These races are just encouraging players to skip over them or to not even play them at all.

 

Why do people play human / orc / rpg and other popular races? They have good skill synergies / ults and usually can get kills on a consistent basis, sometimes with ease.

 

I suggested changing the max skill levels because the skill synergy is rather low and the ultimate sucks. It is not to help "completionists" to finish the class quickly later, but to help people who are in the leveling process to have a race that is some what good without having to spend a ridiculous time leveling it to be some what effective with it.

No... it takes longer to max because there are more levels. Keeper is a fantastic race, it's got built in longjump and sustain. Granted, it's not the pubstomp faggot race that human alliance is, but for fuck's sake, a maxed keeper gives your whole team 10 bonus health at round start just by existing, not to mention the health given over time.

 

Thorns means you should win any gunfight of equal skill, especially given your bonus health, and long jump gives you more mobility in the long term than any race. Sure, teleport can catch you once, but if you're quick longjumping away is a breeze.

 

Just because keeper can't singlehandedly carry a server doesn't mean it's UP. It's got a lot going for it.

[Mr_Oob 25]

No... it takes longer to max because there are more levels. Keeper is a fantastic race, it's got built in longjump and sustain. Granted, it's not the pubstomp faggot race that human alliance is, but for fuck's sake, a maxed keeper gives your whole team 10 bonus health at round start just by existing, not to mention the health given over time.

 

Thorns means you should win any gunfight of equal skill, especially given your bonus health, and long jump gives you more mobility in the long term than any race. Sure, teleport can catch you once, but if you're quick longjumping away is a breeze.

 

Just because keeper can't singlehandedly carry a server doesn't mean it's UP. It's got a lot going for it.

 

Regarding sustain: A shadow hunter can do similar, giving health to team mates who are near him. Not to mention it doesn't do the derpy green lines which can give away the position of team mates easily. It is even possible to buy a ring of regeneration to have a similar health regeneration effect (though not for you team mates) on most races including shadow hunter which makes his regeneration even better.

 

Thorns definitely helps your damage output sort of... The problem is that you will still die from one head shot unless you have full 140 hp and armor on (or have a helm perhaps). A lot of other skills can fall into play, burning enemies, shakes, bashes, slows. Heck even the enemies could have thorns and/or damage reduction.

 

Just because keeper can't singlehandedly carry a server doesn't mean it's UP

I'm guessing this is aimed at keepers who are max level? It can be difficult to keep a good score when leveling a race, but most have something to help. Human with bash, blood mage banish, shadow hunter wards, etc. With so many levels needed to max a skill keepers are dragging their feet. Luckily longjump only takes one point, but the other skills are two percentage chance to happen (free gun, thorns), the ultimate seems worthless to level up (supposedly 1 second or so of slow for a level one ultimate), and the regeneration skills is comparable to buying a ring of regen (if you exclude the healing team mates part).

 

Yes I do agree that keeper does have "a lot" going for it, a free ring of regeneration, crusader's wish, longjump, and some thorns to go along with it... It just kind of feels like a gimped night elf that doesn't have entangle or evasion. Nothing really sticks out and says, "You should give this race a shot!"

 

I remember some new players trying it out and asking questions like "what should I level up first" and the response was "just don't play it" :/. This was like a week or two ago or something. Not sure if the other players were being serious or just joking, but after having played the class I would tell a new player the same, just play something else.

[Name 2616]

Regarding sustain: A shadow hunter can do similar, giving health to team mates who are near him. Not to mention it doesn't do the derpy green lines which can give away the position of team mates easily. It is even possible to buy a ring of regeneration to have a similar health regeneration effect (though not for you team mates) on most races including shadow hunter which makes his regeneration even better.

 

Thorns definitely helps your damage output sort of... The problem is that you will still die from one head shot unless you have full 140 hp and armor on (or have a helm perhaps). A lot of other skills can fall into play, burning enemies, shakes, bashes, slows. Heck even the enemies could have thorns and/or damage reduction.

 

 

 

I'm guessing this is aimed at keepers who are max level? It can be difficult to keep a good score when leveling a race, but most have something to help. Human with bash, blood mage banish, shadow hunter wards, etc. With so many levels needed to max a skill keepers are dragging their feet. Luckily longjump only takes one point, but the other skills are two percentage chance to happen (free gun, thorns), the ultimate seems worthless to level up (supposedly 1 second or so of slow for a level one ultimate), and the regeneration skills is comparable to buying a ring of regen (if you exclude the healing team mates part).

 

Yes I do agree that keeper does have "a lot" going for it, a free ring of regeneration, crusader's wish, longjump, and some thorns to go along with it... It just kind of feels like a gimped night elf that doesn't have entangle or evasion. Nothing really sticks out and says, "You should give this race a shot!"

 

I remember some new players trying it out and asking questions like "what should I level up first" and the response was "just don't play it" :/. This was like a week or two ago or something. Not sure if the other players were being serious or just joking, but after having played the class I would tell a new player the same, just play something else.

Not sure who was saying not to play keeper, but pretty much everyone agrees that keeper is a good race. The reason his ult is mehboring is because the rest of his kit is too fucking good for him to have a good ult too. And his ult is still really effective against knife races. Also, lmao, wards and banish are not better for levelling than thorns and long jump.

[Gail 1]

I like the keeper the way it is.

[Mr_Oob 25]

Not sure who was saying not to play keeper, but pretty much everyone agrees that keeper is a good race. The reason his ult is mehboring is because the rest of his kit is too fucking good for him to have a good ult too. And his ult is still really effective against knife races. Also, lmao, wards and banish are not better for levelling than thorns and long jump.

 

To each his own I guess for what helps make leveling easier.

 

A shitty ult because of half decent skills doesn't make much sense to me...

 

Longjump alone is a good enough counter to knife races (except perhaps a cannibal with a high level longjump itself).

 

"Thons so op on bloodmage, nerf now >:C!!!" Would be hella funny if blood mage had thorns since it can give itself health easily xD!

[Aero 1427]

At least it HAS an ult now.......Keeper is sleeper OP. Stop letting the secret out.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Aero