Flavored Blunt Wraps Now Illegal?

[Fruggles 23]

Marijuana is for retards

Drugs are for SELLING.

Super fixed.

$$$$$$$$$$

[Dyscivist 5686]

alcohol>durgz.

Yup, because alcohol totally isn't a drug.

Lol marijuana is so much more safer than people think it is.

I think we all see the effects of marijuana use right here.

No, but seriously though, marijuana is WAY safer than alcohol medically and anyone trying to tell you differently doesn't know what they're talking about.

I have no problems with using HEMP for ropes, papers, etc. but there is no plausible evidence for the "fact" that marijuana is safer than alcohol, maybe tobacco, but not alcohol.

Except for the fact that no one has died from using marijuana and thousands have died from abusing alcohol.

[Bonghit.Bulletsponge 58]

Yup, because alcohol totally isn't a drug.

I think we all see the effects of marijuana use right here.

No, but seriously though, marijuana is WAY safer than alcohol medically and anyone trying to tell you differently doesn't know what they're talking about.

Except for the fact that no one has died from using marijuana and thousands have died from abusing alcohol.

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

I grabbed the stats for 2000. I checked through most of their source references and it's pretty legit. The deaths were attributed, either directly or indirectly, to the following causes:

1. Tobacco (435k)

2. Poor diet/physical inactivity (365k)

3. Alcohol (85k)

4. Microbial agents (75k)

5. Toxins (55k)

6. Traffic accidents (26.3k)

7. Adverse reactions to prescription drugs (32k)

8. Suicide (30.6k)

9. Firearms (29k)

10. Homicide (20.3k)

11. Sexual Behaviors (20k)

12. Illicit Drug use direct and indirect excluding marijuana (17k)

13. NSAID's i.e. aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, etc.. (7.6k)

14. Marijuana (0)

[Clay 24]

Glad someone liked it.

I lol'd, but you have 2 things wrong. I'm not pushing for it to be acceptable public (there's the "coffee shops", but that's a different story. Since tobacco is starting to be banned in public places, it only makes sense that marijuana would be the same way.) and prices won't honestly go up that much, in my opinion.

If we both have a gas station and gas costs $1.50 a gallon for us to purchase, and the average going rate is $3.00 a gallon, obviously if we keep the same price, there's going to be no real difference in purchases. But, if I lower my price to $2.75, more people are going to come to my store, meaning more profits for me. Prices will stay competitive. Even if the government decides that they want to get a big piece of the action by taxing the hell out of it, there will still be the people growing in their basement, selling their stuff at a lower price. But I'm not even necessarily pushing for a way to pick up a cut at the local gas station, I'm pushing for it to be legal to have a small amount on you.

Bear in mind, I am extremely tired right now.

Oh, and one more thing before I go.

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

[Carl Sagan 2577]

haha, there're a lot of crazy posts in this thread.

It actually helps out the economy way more being illegal.

yeah that multi billion dollar war on drugs is really helping out the economy

[blob 1985]

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

That site has the little number 7 next to the 0, and then going to the link for #7 says nothing about marijuana. So BS stats.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

Yup, because alcohol totally isn't a drug.

I think we all see the effects of marijuana use right here.

No, but seriously though, marijuana is WAY safer than alcohol medically and anyone trying to tell you differently doesn't know what they're talking about.

Except for the fact that no one has died from using marijuana and thousands have died from abusing alcohol.

Using marijuana and abusing alcohol are two completely different things. Alcohol abuse will obviously destroy certain systems in your body-- Similarly, if you consume large amounts (read: abuse) of THC, it can do irreparable damage to your brain. Alcohol might kill you faster, but stop disillusioning yourself that marijuana smoking comes without consequences.

If you want to talk about indirect deaths, marijuana also impairs judgment and lowers reflex time, like alcohol, so driving under the influence is probably just as dangerous.

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

I grabbed the stats for 2000. I checked through most of their source references and it's pretty legit. The deaths were attributed, either directly or indirectly, to the following causes:

1. Tobacco (435k)

2. Poor diet/physical inactivity (365k)

3. Alcohol (85k)

4. Microbial agents (75k)

5. Toxins (55k)

6. Traffic accidents (26.3k)

7. Adverse reactions to prescription drugs (32k)

8. Suicide (30.6k)

9. Firearms (29k)

10. Homicide (20.3k)

11. Sexual Behaviors (20k)

12. Illicit Drug use direct and indirect excluding marijuana (17k)

13. NSAID's i.e. aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, etc.. (7.6k)

14. Marijuana (0)

I lol'd. This document is the source they have cited for their marijuana statistics:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_10.pdf

Pages 10 and 12, specifically. I haven't been able to find a single substance related statistic in there yet... But I'm only up to page 30 of 92. Obviously Tables E and F, on pages 10 and 12, are not their source.

[Bonghit.Bulletsponge 58]

That site has the little number 7 next to the 0, and then going to the link for #7 says nothing about marijuana. So BS stats.

Keep reading, it's number 7 under reference 11.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

Keep reading, it's number 7 under reference 11.

This is also not true.

7. Drugs used in medicine are routinely given what is called an LD-50. The LD-50 rating indicates at what dosage fifty percent of test animals receiving a drug will die as a result of drug induced toxicity. A number of researchers have attempted to determine marijuana's LD-50 rating in test animals, without success. Simply stated, researchers have been unable to give animals enough marijuana to induce death.

That's saying there's not an LD-50 for marijuana. The table says "annual causes of death in the United States." The fact that you can't OD on marijuana does not mean there's no deaths caused by marijuana. I think you just took a bad situation and made it worse.

EDIT::

Since I'm ripping apart your source, where does it say the year that these deaths were caused? Because their sources range from 1996 - 2009, but the only have one table posted there. It appears that they're pulling different stats from multiple years and putting them in one table. You said it's from 2000, but obviously that's not true.

[Space Cowboy 0]

Using marijuana and abusing alcohol are two completely different things. Alcohol abuse will obviously destroy certain systems in your body-- Similarly, if you consume large amounts (read: abuse) of THC, it will do irreparable damage to your brain. Alcohol might kill you faster, but stop disillusioning yourself that marijuana smoking comes without consequences.

If you want to talk about indirect deaths, marijuana also impairs judgment and lowers reflex time, like alcohol, so driving under the influence is probably just as dangerous. .

sorry junzou, time to rip apart your source

Conclusions: These data suggest that long-term heavy marijuana users may have specific deficits in the ability to balance rewards and punishments that may contribute to continued drug-taking behavior. It is unknown, however, whether the basis for such deficits might be attributed directly to marijuana exposure or pre-existing genetic or behavioral differences.

also,

Participants Fifteen carefully selected long-term (>10 years) and heavy (>5 joints daily) cannabis-using men (mean age, 39.8 years; mean duration of regular use, 19.7 years) with no history of polydrug abuse or neurologic/mental disorder and 16 matched nonusing control subjects (mean age, 36.4 years).

oh wait...look at this

Significantly more cannabis users were also tobacco smokers ({chi}2 = 22.9, P < .001) (Table). For all users, cannabis was the primary drug of abuse, with only limited experimental use of other illicit drugs (generally <10 lifetime episodes).

they were smoking cigarettes which means the study was tainted by the fact that you had the influence of tabacco smoke involved in the results. If you wanted a study for the effects of cannabis ONLY, it would have to restrict participates that smoke tabacco. I mean if I do a bunch of coke, does that mean the effects coke will have on my body is a result of me using pot?

Also about driving, I drive completely fine while medicated (or high as some of you would say) but it is stressul and hard to drive while under the influence of alcohol. I've even vaporized RIGHT BEFORE driving and had no hard time doing it.

Also, you guys have to consider combustion is what causes the carcinogens, not the pot itself. You can reduce about 95% of this by vaporizing and 100% of it by baking ( it into food)

There have also been numerous threads about this, why people still refuse to listen is beyond me. If you want data to back up what I said, I'm sure it's in one of the hundred threads that have been talking about this.

Also the comment about red eyes and people being arrested is so stupid. Cops will not arrest you for a DUI just because you have red eyes. Too bad there isn't anything that gets rid of red eyes...

oh and

I don't do any drugs, but because I'm in high school Don't push it.

I can have a glass of red wine with dinner at an uppity restaurant and drive home just fine.

21 year old still in high school? Yah, alcohol isn't dangerous...

[blob 1985]

they were smoking cigarettes which means the study was tainted by the fact that you had the influence of tabacco smoke involved in the results. If you wanted a study for the effects of cannabis ONLY, it would have to restrict participates that smoke tabacco. I mean if I do a bunch of coke, does that mean the effects coke will have on my body is a result of me using pot?

Smoking cigarettes does not have much if any state-altering neurological side effects.

Also about driving, I drive completely fine while medicated (or high as some of you would say) but it is stressul and hard to drive while under the influence of alcohol. I've even vaporized RIGHT BEFORE driving and had no hard time doing it.

I forgot the all-scientific method "My experience = Everyone's experience"

[Zachmanman 877]

strong noire ITT

[Space Cowboy 0]

Smoking cigarettes does not have much if any state-altering neurological side effects.

I forgot the all-scientific method "My experience = Everyone's experience"

are you saying there is not addictive responde to smoking cigarettes? Because Iwould believe that is a psychological responde no? Is addiction not a state-altering neurological side effects?

What scientific evidence can you present to show that it impares your driving so much that it will result in an accident?

Didn't science say pot would also make you kill people? I Have yet to experience that, nor do Iknow anyone that has come down with "Reefer Madness". Science isn't always right.

[Zachmanman 877]

smoking is bad mkayyyy

better to eat it

[Space Cowboy 0]

smoking is bad mkayyyy

better to eat it

or vaporize =)

I prefer that over smoking anyways. A much Cleaner high.

[BAZ8771 2]

sorry junzou, time to rip apart your source

Conclusions: These data suggest that long-term heavy marijuana users may have specific deficits in the ability to balance rewards and punishments that may contribute to continued drug-taking behavior. It is unknown, however, whether the basis for such deficits might be attributed directly to marijuana exposure or pre-existing genetic or behavioral differences.

also,

oh wait...look at this

they were smoking cigarettes which means the study was tainted by the fact that you had the influence of tabacco smoke involved in the results. If you wanted a study for the effects of cannabis ONLY, it would have to restrict participates that smoke tabacco. I mean if I do a bunch of coke, does that mean the effects coke will have on my body is a result of me using pot?

Also about driving, I drive completely fine while medicated (or high as some of you would say) but it is stressul and hard to drive while under the influence of alcohol. I've even vaporized RIGHT BEFORE driving and had no hard time doing it.

Also, you guys have to consider combustion is what causes the carcinogens, not the pot itself. You can reduce about 95% of this by vaporizing and 100% of it by baking ( it into food)

There have also been numerous threads about this, why people still refuse to listen is beyond me. If you want data to back up what I said, I'm sure it's in one of the hundred threads that have been talking about this.

Also the comment about red eyes and people being arrested is so stupid. Cops will not arrest you for a DUI just because you have red eyes. Too bad there isn't anything that gets rid of red eyes...

oh and

21 year old still in high school? Yah, alcohol isn't dangerous...[/quote]

You truly better be trolling, cause if you're not, you're a fucking moron. Apparently weed has impaired your ability to recognize hypothetical situations. Also... don't even get me started about the fucking genetics thing. That's like saying Marie Curie developed cancer through her own genes. It's obvious that inhaling CO2 straight into your lungs, and putting any chemical into your brain that isn't natural is going to harm you. Quit trying to defend your shit. Sure, nobody has "ODd" on weed, but there is no denying that people have died as a DIRECT result of somebody being high. Donte Stallworth for example, killed that old guy while driving when he was high. Don't be so naive.

Also, you guys have to consider combustion is what causes the carcinogens, not the pot itself.

I just went back and re-read your post. My god are you ignorant. The only extra thing produced in any combustion reaction is CO2 and H2O.. look it up in any 10th grade chemistry book. To say that the carcinogens aren't in the pot before you smoke it is just so incredibly stupid.

[blob 1985]

are you saying there is not addictive responde to smoking cigarettes? Because Iwould believe that is a psychological responde no? Is addiction not a state-altering neurological side effects?

Does an addiction to nicotine(or even nicotine it self) impair your ability to drive, or even for that matter, change your state-of-mind?

[BAZ8771 2]

or vaporize =)

I prefer that over smoking anyways. A much Cleaner high.

HURRR DURRR PFPBFBFPBFPF.

"I smoke so much weed, I'm so cool" -_____- "I have experience with a clean high"

What the fuck is wrong with people? Is your current state of depression so bad that you can't function without a mind altering checmical? I know NOBODY who is successful and maintains their success after beginning to smoke on a regular basis. There is no debating that it's bad for your health. It kills your brain cells, there is absolutedly no debating that, don't even try. There is absolutely no debating that it dangerously alters your state of mind, don't even try. There is absolutely no debating that prices would rise if government got their hands around the throat of the weed trade, don't even try.

Ugh. people piss me off, and no, I'm not close minded, just realistic.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

I can finally respond. Maybe if you didn't smoke so much pot, you wouldn't have forgotten your password and I wouldn't have to test the reset password function, hmmm? ^^

Seriously though, on to your points:

1) Correlation doesn't mean causation. I acknowledged this and when back to edit my post about two minutes after I posted it to say "can cause" instead of "will cause." My bad, I slipped up.

2) Unknown doesn't mean that the study is invalidated. It's a longshot that a genetic predisposition or a behavioral difference caused their volume to drop in the cannabis group and not the control group, but it's entirely possible. Maybe you're right, and there's some sort of behavioral disorder or genetic disorder that causes people to smoke cannabis, and also results in brain shrinkage. That is what you're saying-- right?

3) Smoking tobacco hasn't been known to have those effects, but it's entirely possible that there's an interaction effect between the two. I'm sure all the participants drink water too, maybe that's what caused the shrinkage? Sarcasm aside, if alone tobacco doesn't cause (or correlate) with brain shrinkage, but with marijuana it does, that's still a significant finding, and it shows that if combined with tobacco usage, heavy marijuana use can have significant negative neurological effects.

4) I said (and cited my source) that found that marijuana impaired judgment. Of course, I'm sure your personal anecdotes trump scientific research, so I'll defer to you.

5) Nevermind, Baz replied to your comment about the carcinogens.

6) There have been numerous threads about this, and generally it's just back and forth bickering between uneducated potheads that find biased sources on par with wikipedia to defend their habits and prudes that have some sort of moral objection to marijuana smoking, but often no facts to back up what the say.

Lastly, you didn't "rip apart" my source. Ripping it apart would be showing that there's no basis for the assertions made in the source, or that the source used bad logic to reach a conclusion. I ripped apart Bonghit's source. You did not rip apart mine-- you made (weak) critiques of their methodologies, and pointed out that I made a mistake in saying "will cause" instead of "can cause."

[Dyscivist 5686]

What the fuck is wrong with people? Is your current state of depression so bad that you can't function without a mind altering checmical? I know NOBODY who is successful and maintains their success after beginning to smoke on a regular basis.

[Space Cowboy 0]

HURRR DURRR PFPBFBFPBFPF.

"I smoke so much weed, I'm so cool" -_____- "I have experience with a clean high"

What the fuck is wrong with people? Is your current state of depression so bad that you can't function without a mind altering checmical? I know NOBODY who is successful and maintains their success after beginning to smoke on a regular basis. There is no debating that it's bad for your health. It kills your brain cells, there is absolutedly no debating that, don't even try. There is absolutely no debating that it dangerously alters your state of mind, don't even try. There is absolutely no debating that prices would rise if government got their hands around the throat of the weed trade, don't even try.

Ugh. people piss me off, and no, I'm not close minded, just realistic.

HURRR DURRR PFPBFBFPBFPF.

"I smoke so much weed, I'm so cool" -_____- "I have experience with a clean high"

What the fuck is wrong with people? Is your current state of depression so bad that you can't function without a mind altering checmical? I know NOBODY who is successful and maintains their success after beginning to smoke on a regular basis. There is no debating that it's bad for your health. It kills your brain cells, there is absolutedly no debating that, don't even try. There is absolutely no debating that it dangerously alters your state of mind, don't even try. There is absolutely no debating that prices would rise if government got their hands around the throat of the weed trade, don't even try.

Ugh. people piss me off, and no, I'm not close minded, just realistic.

proof to back up your statment? I didn't think so

When did I say I was cool for smoking it? Your rage is probably from the inability to prove your point intelligently so you have to resort to childish antiques (HURRR DURRR PFPBFBFPBFPF.) to get your point across. No point in debating? Is that because you have no evidence to back up your claim?

Oh, did you even bother reading the study junzou posted? Or did you see something that said altered state of mind and assumed you knew what they were talking about? Try reading the study he posted first.

About your glass of wine compared to driving while high

To date, “[The] role of drugs as a causal factor in traffic crashes involving drug-positive drivers is still not well understood.”6 While some studies have indicated that illicit drug use is associated with an increased risk of accident, a relationship has not been established regarding the use of psychoactive substances and crash severity.7 Drivers under the influence of illicit drugs do experience an enhanced fatality risk compared to sober drivers. However, this risk is approximately three times lower than the fatality risk associated with drivers who operate a vehicle above or near the legal limit for alcohol intoxication.8 According to one recent review: “The risk of all drug-positive drivers compared to drug-free drivers is similar to drivers with a blood alcohol concentration of 0.05%. The risk is also similar to drivers above age 60 compared to younger drivers [around age 35].”9

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7459

oh, it's actually good for your brain too.

Not only has modern science refuted the notion that marijuana is neurotoxic, recent scientific discoveries have indicated that cannabinoids are, in fact, neuroprotective, particularly against alcohol-induced brain damage. In a recent preclinical study -- the irony of which is obvious to anyone who reads it -- researchers at the US National Institutes of Mental Health (NIMH) reported that the administration of the non-psychoactive cannabinoid cannabidiol (CBD) reduced ethanol-induced cell death in the brain by up to 60 percent. "This study provides the first demonstration of CBD as an in vivo neuroprotectant ... in preventing binge ethanol-induced brain injury," the study's authors wrote in the May 2005 issue of the Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics. Alcohol poisoning is linked to hundreds of preventable deaths each year in the United States, according to the Centers for Disease Control, while cannabis cannot cause death by overdose.

and to back up my statement about carcinogens

Cannabis consumers who desire the rapid onset of action associated with inhalation but who are concerned about the potential harms of noxious smoke can dramatically cut down on their intake of carcinogenic compounds by engaging in vaporization rather than smoking. Cannabis vaporization limits respiratory toxins by heating cannabis to a temperature where cannabinoid vapors form (typically around 180-190 degrees Celsius), but below the point of combustion where noxious smoke and associated toxins (i.e., carcinogenic hydrocarbons) are produced (near 230 degrees Celsius). Because vaporization can deliver doses of cannabinoids while reducing the users intake of carcinogenic smoke, it is considered to be a preferred and likely safer method of cannabis administration than smoking marijuana cigarettes or inhaling from a water pipe. According to the findings of a recent clinical trial, use of the Volcano vaporizing device delivered set doses of THC to subjects in a reproducible manner while suppressing the intake of respiratory toxins.

And before you say, lok it also produces carcinogens, I noted that it gets rid of MOST not all.

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6891

might want to read this too

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

so I have provided my evidence. Where is yours?

[UnknownLegend 5480]

What the fuck is wrong with people? Is your current state of depression so bad that you can't function without a mind altering checmical? I know NOBODY who is successful and maintains their success after beginning to smoke on a regular basis.

1) Depends on how you define success. Bob Marley is very widely known-- would you say he's successful? How about

Willie Nelson? Both of them have more fame (success?) then you'll probably ever have.

2) Just because they use mind-altering chemicals doesn't mean they're depressed... Why are you such a prude?

[Space Cowboy 0]

2) Unknown doesn't mean that the study is invalidated. It's a longshot that a genetic predisposition or a behavioral difference caused their volume to drop in the cannabis group and not the control group, but it's entirely possible. Maybe you're right, and there's some sort of behavioral disorder or genetic disorder that causes people to smoke cannabis, and also results in brain shrinkage. That is what you're saying-- right?

what about the fact it states they used other drugs as well? Not just cigarettes. Since it stated cannabis was the PRIMARY (not the only) drug they used.

[Clay 24]

This goes to a couple people in this thread. Well played.

I am enjoying the hell out of this one.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

what about the fact it states they used other drugs as well? Not just cigarettes. Since it stated cannabis was the PRIMARY (not the only) drug they used.

You misquoted, but I'll assume it's because you're high and respond to what you said anyway.

The study goes on to define that other drugs have been used less than 10 times over the course of the participants' lifetime-- actually, you quoted the section where they said that. If the other drugs they used have been known to cause, or if it's plausible that they would cause, that significant of a decrease in size with less than 10 usages, I'm sure they would have noted it