Ok. I have a question.

[Zan 14]

I feel this is becoming to much on the "Zan" subject. I just want to focus on the fact that people are getting overlooked that deserver better. I can name a few off the top of my head that I believe deserve better.

[Audiovox 6]

@ Comp

Yeah, just sucks the people that I really wanted in there from the clan wouldn't compromise a bit just to help out, as if enough stuff wasn't going on already. I did try to help out the vets and get stuff in there to make it better for them, but so many of them just wouldn't budge

@ Project

I never made accusations that he actually did untrustworthy things here in the clan, just saying on the surface he wouldn't have been my first pic for a responsible role for many reasons. I say this because the surface is really all most of us have to go on when trying to select people for stuff. In his defense, he did seem to straighten up a bit after he thought about it a while.

-Audio

EDIT: Shit, stop posting so fast ><

@ Oreo

For the traits thing, I'll go into my earlier statement a bit more to clarify what I was thinking. For leadership roles and general staff, he didn't show many bad traits and when it comes down to it, prolly woulda done a fine job if it came to that. His biggest error was that most of the time he was either silent about his thoughts, or he kinda beat around the bush till something happened. Not a great trait for leadership roles, but not life threatening either. Also, not all roles as staff are as leadership skill intensive as others, if anything I figured making him mapping leader would have displayed a great amount of leadership skill for the time he did it. I'm just pointing out that in granting him lead of mapping squad, you guys did display a certain amount of trust and to back track on that now and deny him that part of his past by saying he doesn't make for a good leader is rather degrading.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (UltimateOreo @ Nov 11 2008, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

It's as simple as not everybody is cut out to be a leader. Being a leader is more of a burden than anything. I thought it would be pretty cool when I first started, but it's a lot of hard work and dedication. It is not given out as a gift, it's given out to the people who we think can handle and utilize their power for the best of the clan.

QFT

Leadership seems cool with RCON and Senior Admin, but it really is much more of a burden. You have people constantly messaging you in and out of game to come on to other servers to spec someone, you have to deal with the limited amount of power you have to address situations that are really above your level, and you have to worry about people stomping their feet because you shook a stick at them when they were being a dick on the forums. The best part though, as you well know Audio, is trying to communicate with certain (a) certain person(s) on the staff who is EXTREMELY difficult to deal with.

[Zan 14]

I stayed silent with all my opinions because, they tend to make others mad when I do post them. For example, My first thoughts after reading Oreo's post was how much it pissed me off. If I had posted that, I would have most likely received warning points.

[UltimateOreo 145]

I'm sorry that it made you angry, but that's usually what a harsh truth does. Not everybody is cut out for a staff position. It isn't a privilege, either you show management skills or you don't.

[Audiovox 6]

Reminds me, for the payment thing. Honestly, the return my work brings when I do it well and without interruption from others who have no idea what they are talking about, any money payed to me, within reason, would be made up 10 fold in the long run. But, I've never really pursued payment even though I've been offered it by other clans and people in general because that detracts from the reason I got into it to start with. I do it because I love it. That's not to say I wouldn't accept payment under the right circumstances, but it will not take priority over my passion for challenge and making stuff better for others. And for the record, while I was working with UV to set up servers and and stuff, at any one time I had 2-3 other independent servers with owners that gave me free reign over what happened and they turned out well, all they did was tell me a basic outline of what they wanted and a time frame to work in. So it's not like UV is the only option I had when it came to modding and such, and while I understand you guys know what you are doing with servers because you've also been doing it for a while, I'm not exactly a noob at this or untrustworthy myself. Unfortunately, as independent server owners with no real organized clan at the time, most of the others I worked for could only manage free admin and all that good stuff, but they did offer to pay me just to set it up.

-Audio

EDIT: (dammit)

@ Oreo

That's why I was saying the post you made and the actions shown by the higher ups where contradictory. You people did show trust in his management skills by making him mapping leader! What you are saying doesn't seem to be based off anything except for personal opinion.

[Zan 14]

.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Audiovox @ Nov 11 2008, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Reminds me, for the payment thing. Honestly, the return my work brings when I do it well and without interruption from others who have no idea what they are talking about, any money payed to me, within reason, would be made up 10 fold in the long run. But, I've never really pursued payment even though I've been offered it by other clans and people in general because that detracts from the reason I got into it to start with. I do it because I love it. That's not to say I wouldn't accept payment under the right circumstances, but it will not take priority over my passion for challenge and making stuff better for others. And for the record, while I was working with UV to set up servers and and stuff, at any one time I had 2-3 other independent servers with owners that gave me free reign over what happened and they turned out well, all they did was tell me a basic outline of what they wanted and a time frame to work in. So it's not like UV is the only option I had when it came to modding and such, and while I understand you guys know what you are doing with servers because you've also been doing it for a while, I'm not exactly a noob at this or untrustworthy myself. Unfortunately, as independent server owners with no real organized clan at the time, most of the others I worked for could only manage free admin and all that good stuff, but they did offer to pay me just to set it up.

-Audio

I fought to get you full control over ZM1 and you disappeared shortly thereafter.

[Audiovox 6]

xD I told you I really do appreciate how much you worked to help me, but by then it was too late and then school hit me >> Life will take priority over this in all situations. UV might not be here forever, but my decisions in High School will be. I swear I didn't just randomly forget about all this :\

-Audio

EDIT: And it was more like full control with strings attached.

EDITNUMERO2: Not that there's anything we could have done about it, given the circumstances.

[Zan 14]

Asking to become a staff member because of pure activity would be ignorant. It has to do with:

your ability to control situations,

HA, I was a senior admin for almost 6 months, I didnt pay for it, It was given to me for trying to help. I've handled tons of cases.

your maturity,

Tell me when I have shown otherwise, and dont even think about putting one of the many times I joke.

willingness to help,

Don't even get me started on this.

coherence,

I havent the faintest clue what you are meaning here to be honest.

and management skills.

I built a server from scratch, kept it running untill I finally abandond it because of lack of support.

Being a staff member is not a privilege, it's a responsibility.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Audiovox @ Nov 11 2008, 09:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

xD I told you I really do appreciate how much you worked to help me, but by then it was too late and then school hit me >> Life will take priority over this in all situations. UV might not be here forever, but my decisions in High School will be. I swear I didn't just randomly forget about all this :\

-Audio

Fair 'nuff.

Look, I understand where you're coming from with all of this. The leadership issue is not going to change, and that's probably another topic in and of itself; as far as people caring about the server, I migrated because it was offline/unpopulated and at the time most of my ZM friends migrated to WCS #2. Whenever I try to go back to ZM, I hear some bullshit about some admin making up a rule about propmenu, or someone else crying about some other random thing, or I see an admin that I need to warn because they're noclipping around the server, and I just leave again. Right now we need something to seriously revamp the server, and I would pretty seriously consider removing props (maybe not skills) all together.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Asking to become a staff member because of pure activity would be ignorant. It has to do with:

your ability to control situations,

HA, I was a senior admin for almost 6 months, I didnt pay for it, It was given to me for trying to help. I've handled tons of cases.

your maturity,

Tell me when I have shown otherwise, and dont even think about putting one of the many times I joke.

willingness to help,

Don't even get me started on this.

coherence,

I havent the faintest clue what you are meaning here to be honest.

and management skills.

I built a server from scratch, kept it running untill I finally abandond it because of lack of support.

Being a staff member is not a privilege, it's a responsibility.

Zan, there's no other way to say it, you just aren't ready yet. Take it up with Oreo in private messages.

[Audiovox 6]

Btw, I'm not picking sides or fighting anyone's battles, I'm just making sense of what I'm reading and looking for reasons why this is fact, as it is presented as such. If it is then it is, I just wasn't aware of it and needed some proof or reason to also believe so. And if it is just personal opinion that's fine too, I'd just like to know what I'm missing here...

-Audio

EDIT:

@ Junzo

Yup, for all the good things about propmenu, I think it's just too much trouble relative to the amount of patience the admins and mods have.

EDIT2!:

That's progress, at least it's direct and not covered up with half thought out reasons. Still might not be able to provide a satisfying reason other than "You are not ready yet" But I'm quite sure it's better than silence followed by degrading conversations with no real reasoning behind it.

[Zan 14]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Junzou @ Nov 11 2008, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Zan, there's no other way to say it, you just aren't ready yet. Take it up with Oreo in private messages.

Nah, I would'nt want it now.

And on the maturity subject- To my knowledge there is only one thing that I have done that would Negate this, and I have already told P2 and he said he didnt care.

[UltaPonch 80]

Zan shussh I am trying to have a conversation in the other side of the pub.

[Zan 14]

Alright, I'm done arguing for now. Good night everyone,

[Zachmanman 877]

I would never want to be a staff member. I would accept the position if offered, but I don't see the need for being someone with that responsibility. Maybe its just because I always view this as "a game" and I like to play on UV servers. If the clan asks something of me I would be more than glad to give it to them, but I don't want to ask the clan for something in return because they let me play on their servers.

[defqon 30]

I wouldnt even doubt two secs to give you anything audio. You want the best for UV and I know that. I was kinda sad not seeing you around here.

[projectmayhem9 8]

Maturity: Slaying everyone and spamming music in a WCS server just for the lulz.

[Waylon 2]

I left because....

I was JCS for how long and it took how long to get admin and it was only on 2 servers so trying to regulate servers was impossible

There was no organization within the clan, and the site still needs to be updated.

P2 had some kid fuck with my internet, and regardless of what people say I had shit fucking up on my computer after so I'm sure it was more than just the time warner account.

The wcs server was shitty at the time and crashing.

The adv and jcs were slackers at the time, and was me a lot of the time reviewing demos and complaints, etc.

I would get questioned about my judgment calls (the last kid I banned)

Pretty much I worked hard to only receive procrastination in return and had limited power.

Audio your a smart cookie, and I love you.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

Things are still the same Waylon, don't worry, we have to deal with a lot of (not all) the same issues