Veganism

[Yunki 2197]

2 hours ago, Ironic said:

There’s no way I’m gonna go through and ready everything you guys have been putting.... but I’ll just give my two cents on this subject.

 

Yes, I agree there’s some shitty farmers out there who abuse the hell out of animals before killing them when it’s there time. Hell, there’s so many out there and it’s just sad and wrong. I don’t agree with how most are doing it.

Here’s how I see it, humans > other animals/species. Call me an asshole or whatever, but I believe humans (being as we’re the alpha male so to speak of all other species) can eat whatever other animal we want. Even animals we consider pets here in America, because in other countries they eat cats and dogs. In a way I guess I’m saying humans get more rights than other animals/species. That’s just how it is.

People (like maybe yourself @Yunki idk what you do in your free time haha) can go out and protest, but the bottom line is humans will always have more rights than these other animals. Again, I don’t agree with abusing them whatsoever and making there life hell before they get killed so we can eat them, but I also don’t honestly have that much sympathy for them dying so we can have some tasty meat.

I suggest you read my main post, it covers why you're line of thinking does not morally justify killing other sentient beings.

 

I have taken the time to read and respond to everyone's comments. I'd appreciate you show some sort of respect by reading what I wrote which covers literally what you just typed out.

3 hours ago, Rock said:

This was actually very nice to read, but simply put i just enjoy the taste of meat and all the forms in which I can eat it so I don't think I will be vegan anytime soon.

 

Do you admit that you cannot morally justify eating these animals though. Like I have told others, it is not a moral justification to eat animals just because you like the taste of their flesh. Do you believe that your taste buds and 15 minutes of pleasure are worth more than the only life an animals gets? 

 

If no, then what is your moral justification for doing it? 

 

If yes, I suggest you re-read what I wrote in the main post lmao

[Ironic 2278]

53 minutes ago, Yunki said:

I suggest you read my main post, it covers why you're line of thinking does not morally justify killing other sentient beings.

Morals are just an opinion of what’s right and what’s wrong. Your morals may be different than mine. So what you think may be wrong, others may think is okay. You can think it’s fucked up, but that’s how it is.

[Yunki 2197]

48 minutes ago, Ironic said:

Morals are just an opinion of what’s right and what’s wrong. Your morals may be different than mine. So what you think may be wrong, others may think is okay. You can think it’s fucked up, but that’s how it is.

Sure there are some things that you can argue to be subjectively (im)moral, however, the reason why our society has not crumbled into complete chaos is that we understand that there are objective morals too. Everyone knows murder is wrong, everyone knows rape is wrong, everyone knows child abuse is wrong, everyone knows domestic violence is wrong, everyone knows slavery is wrong. We know these are wrong because humans are inherently compassionate beings and we know not treat others like shit. Remember the golden rule we were told to always follow? Treat others the way you want to be treated.

 

Let's play along with your idea of morality being subjective. I'm sure you would not like me and a bunch of my friends to come into your home at night, kill your family and hang your dog in front of you. You can yell and scream, "WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU! WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS SO FUCKED UP!"

 

Is it valid for me to say, "It's only fucked up to you, I don't see anything wrong with this."? 

 

I'm sure you would say that just because I think it's fine doesn't make it fine, it's because you understand that what I did was wrong and immoral. I took the lives of innocent beings simply because I had the opportunity. Having the ability to do something DOES NOT give you the right to do it. 

 

I'm sure you might want to bring up that what I did was wrong because it's against the law, however, laws have historically not lined up with our sense of morality. It once was legal to own slaves and do what you wanted with them. Sure it was LEGAL to do it, but was it right? (I hope you would say slavery was wrong)

 

At one point in time, Jews were legally sent to concentration/death camps to do forced labor, be experimented on, and to ultimately die. Just because Hitler was legally allowed to do it, does it make it okay? 

 

Just because a government says something is okay, does not mean that it is okay. 

 

[Retuzy 35]

1. Animals eat other animals, We are animals; therefore we have an urge to eat fellow animals. We are just good at killing our "livestock"

2. I am against animal cruelty and some people get away with sick things but the reality of it is that there is a "food chain" and we as a species are on top.

3. If animals are sentient beings then they would need to show some form of ethics in which I personally see arguments for both sides

[Yunki 2197]

1 minute ago, FanService said:

1. Animals eat other animals, We are animals; therefore we have an urge to eat fellow animals. We are just good at killing our "livestock"

2. I am against animal cruelty and some people get away with sick things but the reality of it is that there is a "food chain" and we as a species are on top.

3. If animals are sentient beings then they would need to show some form of ethics in which I personally see arguments for both sides

You clearly failed to read anything I have posted. Read my main post because I literally go over every point you bring up...

[Retuzy 35]

11 minutes ago, Yunki said:

You clearly failed to read anything I have posted. Read my main post because I literally go over every point you bring up...

 

1.I'm am very well aware of your post I'm not that ignorant. 

2.Both sides of this argument have solid cases. I myself was a vegetarian until my senior year of high school. Until my Biology teacher gave me those 3 points 

3.Vegans have a wonderful and honorable cause. But just like in extreme feminism feel the need to "inform" other people of there immorality.

4.Yes murder and things can be classified as morally "objective" but animals kill with next to no remorse yet some say they have sentient self awareness

5.I would we can't justify killing and eating animals, but do you morally justify everything you do?

6.Face reality in two cases A) Some people in third world countries rely on meat as it is easier to go fishing or hunt wild animals B) Natural selection doesn't contain morality it's all of selfishness nature has no morality our concept of morality comes our special intellect 

 

If you want to talk about morality of animals and humans I have an 8 page ethics paper I wrote last year 

 

I would go into this further but I'm at work

 

 

[Yunki 2197]

3 minutes ago, FanService said:

 

1.I'm am very well aware of your post I'm not that ignorant. 

2.Both sides of this argument have solid cases. I myself was a vegetarian until my senior year of high school. Until my Biology teacher gave me those 3 points 

3.Vegans have a wonderful and honorable cause. But just like in extreme feminism feel the need to "inform" other people of there immorality.

4.Yes murder and things can be classified as morally "objective" but animals kill with next to no remorse yet some say they have sentient self awareness

5.I would we can't justify killing and eating animals, but do you morally justify everything you do?

6.Face reality in two cases A) Some people in third world countries rely on meat as it is easier to go fishing or hunt wild animals B) Natural selection doesn't contain morality it's all of selfishness nature has no morality our concept of morality comes our special intellect 

 

If you want to talk about morality of animals and humans I have an 8 page ethics paper I wrote last year 

 

I would go into this further but I'm at work

 

 

You may be aware of my original post but you clearly have not read it...

I argued against the 3 points you brought up and you have failed to counter-argue my points

 

If killing animals for food has no moral justification, then how can it be seen as extreme for a vegan or animal-rights activists to help show you why demanding the slaughtering and torture of animals is wrong.

 

Every other thing you brought up (including your 3 original points) were ALL answered in my original post and you have not given any counter-argument for what I have in that post. I suggest you actually read it when you get the chance 

 

[Ironic 2278]

2 hours ago, Yunki said:

Sure there are some things that you can argue to be subjectively (im)moral, however, the reason why our society has not crumbled into complete chaos is that we understand that there are objective morals too. Everyone knows murder is wrong, everyone knows rape is wrong, everyone knows child abuse is wrong, everyone knows domestic violence is wrong, everyone knows slavery is wrong. We know these are wrong because humans are inherently compassionate beings and we know not treat others like shit. Remember the golden rule we were told to always follow? Treat others the way you want to be treated.

 

Let's play along with your idea of morality being subjective. I'm sure you would not like me and a bunch of my friends to come into your home at night, kill your family and hang your dog in front of you. You can yell and scream, "WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU! WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS SO FUCKED UP!"

 

Is it valid for me to say, "It's only fucked up to you, I don't see anything wrong with this."? 

 

I'm sure you would say that just because I think it's fine doesn't make it fine, it's because you understand that what I did was wrong and immoral. I took the lives of innocent beings simply because I had the opportunity. Having the ability to do something DOES NOT give you the right to do it. 

 

I'm sure you might want to bring up that what I did was wrong because it's against the law, however, laws have historically not lined up with our sense of morality. It once was legal to own slaves and do what you wanted with them. Sure it was LEGAL to do it, but was it right? (I hope you would say slavery was wrong)

 

At one point in time, Jews were legally sent to concentration/death camps to do forced labor, be experimented on, and to ultimately die. Just because Hitler was legally allowed to do it, does it make it okay? 

 

Just because a government says something is okay, does not mean that it is okay. 

 

So you’re making the argument that because the government says it’s okay, means maybe it’s not okay? You could say this about every single political subject.... guns, abortion, gay marriage, etc.

Bottom line is most people yes are okay with killing animals for food. If you don’t like it, well I’m sorry, but that’s how it is right now and I don’t see it ever changing. I’ll eat my meat in peace

[Ordinarygamer96 785]

1 hour ago, Ironic said:

So you’re making the argument that because the government says it’s okay, means maybe it’s not okay?

Hes not it doesn't  necessarily mean its morally ok just because its legal. Not that it being legal makes it more likely to not be ok

[Yunki 2197]

2 hours ago, Ironic said:

So you’re making the argument that because the government says it’s okay, means maybe it’s not okay? You could say this about every single political subject.... guns, abortion, gay marriage, etc.

Bottom line is most people yes are okay with killing animals for food. If you don’t like it, well I’m sorry, but that’s how it is right now and I don’t see it ever changing. I’ll eat my meat in peace

Read what OG said, you misunderstood what I typed.

 

I am saying you can't morally justify an action just because it's legal. With that in mind, how can you morally justify eating sentient beings when we can survive and thrive on plant-based diets.

 

 

[Ironic 2278]

30 minutes ago, Yunki said:

I am saying you can't morally justify an action just because it's legal. With that in mind, how can you morally justify eating sentient beings when we can survive and thrive on plant-based diets.

Sure you can, I morally think that some animals may have the purpose to be killed and be eaten. There ya go!

[Yunki 2197]

7 minutes ago, Ironic said:

Sure you can, I morally think that some animals may have the purpose to be killed and be eaten. There ya go!

I morally think that some races are inferior than others so it's okay to enslave them. There ya go!

 

Just because you say it doesn't make it true. I can yell that 2+2=5 but no matter how much I yell it, it doesn't make it true.

 

It is not MORAL, to inflict suffering on a sentient being unless there is a valid justification (i.e. if I don't eat this meat I will die of starvation). Most, if not all of us in America have no valid moral justification to eating meat and animals products. There is a victim with this act, and because of it, you need to MORALLY justify it.

 

Again, because we can survive and thrive on plant-based diets, it becomes unnecessary for us to consume their flesh. Therefore, we have no moral justification to do it.

 

 

Edit for further clarification: This all goes back to the fact that there are objective morals, one of which is that it is not okay to needlessly inflict pain and suffering of beings that have the capability to feel pain and suffer.

 

Also edited a critical grammar error

[Ironic 2278]

49 minutes ago, Yunki said:

I morally think that some races are inferior than others so it's okay to enslave them. There ya go!

You can think that and that can be your opinion, but obviously you aren’t allowed to right now.

 

57 minutes ago, Yunki said:

It is not MORAL, to inflict suffering on a sentient being unless there is a valid justification (i.e. if I don't eat this meat I will die of starvation). Most, if not all of us in America have no valid moral justification to eating meat and animals products. There is a victim with this act, and because of it, you need to MORALLY justify it.

Again, that’s literally all your opinion. 

59 minutes ago, Yunki said:

Again, because we can survive and thrive on plant-based diets, it becomes unnecessary for us to consume their flesh. Therefore, we have no moral justification to do it.

Meat tastes better than plants. Good enough for me!

1 hour ago, Yunki said:

Edit for further clarification: This all goes back to the fact that there are objective morals, one of which is that it is not okay to needlessly inflict pain and suffering of beings that have the capability to feel pain and suffer.

That’s still your opinion.

[Yunki 2197]

33 minutes ago, Ironic said:

You can think that and that can be your opinion, but obviously you aren’t allowed to right now.

 

Again, that’s literally all your opinion. 

Meat tastes better than plants. Good enough for me!

That’s still your opinion.

1. Saying it taste better is not a moral justification. Like I've told other people on Thai thread. Is the taste of an animals flesh for that 15 minute meal worth the only life that animal gets? 

 

If not, then what is your moral justification for doing it?

 

2. So do you believe there are objective morals (killing is bad, rape is bad, enslavement is bad)? 

[Ironic 2278]

7 minutes ago, Yunki said:

1. Saying it taste better is not a moral justification. Like I've told other people on Thai thread. Is the taste of an animals flesh for that 15 minute meal worth the only life that animal gets? 

 

If not, then what is your moral justification for doing it?

 

2. So do you believe there are objective morals (killing is bad, rape is bad, enslavement is bad)? 

1. Yes, and my moral justification is that some animals have the main purpose of being killed so we can eat them.

2. No I don’t. All of those are opinions. Some which most agree (like rape and slavery is bad). When it comes to killing, it all depends. Like I’m all for the death penalty, I’m all for our military shooting up terrorists and such, and obviously I’m all for animals being killed for food.

[Yunki 2197]

5 minutes ago, Ironic said:

1. Yes, and my moral justification is that some animals have the main purpose of being killed so we can eat them.

2. No I don’t. All of those are opinions. Some which most agree (like rape and slavery is bad). When it comes to killing, it all depends. Like I’m all for the death penalty, I’m all for our military shooting up terrorists and such, and obviously I’m all for animals being killed for food.

2

So after having a conversation with people, I am beginning to understand this more. 

In the end, I don't think I can change your mind. You believe it's okay that billions of animals suffer and are tortured every year just to please our taste buds even though we can obtain all the nutrients we need from plant-based sources. You also believe that our taste buds are more important than the environment and your own health. And you think it's okay that all of this happens because we have the ability to do it and that somehow we are deserving of other sentient beings lives. Glad to know where you stand!

 

 

[Ironic 2278]

Just now, Yunki said:

So after having a conversation with people, I am beginning to understand this more. 

In the end, I don't think I can change your mind. You believe it's okay that billions of animals suffer and are tortured every year just to please our taste buds even though we can obtain all the nutrients we need from plant-based sources. You also believe that our taste buds are more important than the environment and your own health. And you think it's okay that all of this happens because we have the ability to do it and that somehow we are deserving of other sentient beings lives. Glad to know where you stand!

 

 

Yes! Finally you understand.

[Yunki 2197]

39 minutes ago, Ironic said:

Yes! Finally you understand.

Show it off proudly! That type of thinking has always shown to be historically positive!

[Ironic 2278]

5 hours ago, Yunki said:

Show it off proudly! That type of thinking has always shown to be historically positive!

So far out of all the years we’ve been eating meat, it hasn’t seemed to cause a problem so far 

[Ordinarygamer96 785]

1 hour ago, Ironic said:

So far out of all the years we’ve been eating meat, it hasn’t seemed to cause a problem so far 

Except increased rates of heart illness and other health problems

[Ironic 2278]

7 hours ago, Ordinarygamer96 said:

Except increased rates of heart illness and other health problems

Actually no, this depends on what kind of meat you eat, how much sugar, calories, carbs, and etc you’re putting into your body, and weather or not you only eat meat.

I’m not taking away the fact that veggies most of the time can be healthier than meat, but meat in general will not give you an “increased heart illness and other health problems”. There’s no proof for it.

http://drhyman.com/blog/2016/01/22/is-meat-good-or-bad-for-you/

https://www.smallfootprintfamily.com/is-meat-bad-for-you

[Yunki 2197]

9 hours ago, Ironic said:

So far out of all the years we’ve been eating meat, it hasn’t seemed to cause a problem so far 

The reason you don't see a problem with it is because you fail to see that there is a victim. You don't see a problem because you believe that humans have some sort of property to them that makes them the God of Earth. That type of thinking where a human/groups of humans thought they were justified in commiting atrocities just because of some arbitrary and insignificant characteristics has always shown to be a problem. Vegans and some non-vegans, (the discussions of this thread shows me that even if they don't follow the lifestyle, they agree what goes on is wrong and ultimately should be stopped) realize there are billions of victims who can not escape their living hell without help. 

 

I don't expect veganism to become the majority in my lifetime, however injustice will ultimately seize the exist. Hell, it took hundreds of years for humans to realize that that owning another human was wrong. 

 

[Ironic 2278]

45 minutes ago, Yunki said:

The reason you don't see a problem with it is because you fail to see that there is a victim. You don't see a problem because you believe that humans have some sort of property to them that makes them the God of Earth. That type of thinking where a human/groups of humans thought they were justified in commiting atrocities just because of some arbitrary and insignificant characteristics has always shown to be a problem. Vegans and some non-vegans, (the discussions of this thread shows me that even if they don't follow the lifestyle, they agree what goes on is wrong and ultimately should be stopped) realize there are billions of victims who can not escape their living hell without help. 

 

I don't expect veganism to become the majority in my lifetime, however injustice will ultimately seize the exist. Hell, it took hundreds of years for humans to realize that that owning another human was wrong. 

 

I don’t see veganism to ever become the majority, because hell people just love their meat. I’ve already told you I don’t agree at all with how most of the animals are mistreated before being killed. But hey, if you think animals have equal rights to what humans have, then that’s your opinion man. That’s not how it is seen by most people now, and I don’t think it will ever be. But who knows man.

Until somehow it becomes illegal (which I don’t think it ever will be), I’ll sit here and enjoy my meat. Had some ribs and steak last night (not gonna lie, my friends mom made some bomb ass steak!), and having some hamburgers tonight!

[camelFun 1435]

1 hour ago, Yunki said:

The reason you don't see a problem with it is because you fail to see that there is a victim. You don't see a problem because you believe that humans have some sort of property to them that makes them the God of Earth. That type of thinking where a human/groups of humans thought they were justified in commiting atrocities just because of some arbitrary and insignificant characteristics has always shown to be a problem. Vegans and some non-vegans, (the discussions of this thread shows me that even if they don't follow the lifestyle, they agree what goes on is wrong and ultimately should be stopped) realize there are billions of victims who can not escape their living hell without help. 

 

I don't expect veganism to become the majority in my lifetime, however injustice will ultimately seize the exist. Hell, it took hundreds of years for humans to realize that that owning another human was wrong. 

 

You're arbitraily deciding who is a victim. Asa Akira relishes her molestation on japanese metros, but other japanese girls don't. Horses are so naturally tamed because they understand their roles as beasts of burden.

 

Cows can fall over out of fear because they have no proper escape mechanism. It's only natural that they be hunted. A lion will hold onto a gazelle while it tries to run, torturing it, pulling it apart for its meat. We are all just animals in the kingdom, and as humans, we've evolved our means of hunt to the point where we don't need to hunt at all; We breed our animals for food. It's the endgame of hunting.

[MistaChang 2023]

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