Thoughts on Duterte (from discord)

[ajsimeon 100]

This is what was said regarding Duterte @Travesty:

Travesty-Today at 1:57 PM

ajsimeon what are your thoughts on Duterte?

ajsimeon-Today at 4:26 PM

i'm gonna be honest and say i don't really follow politics in the Philippines, however, i believe Duterte is a leader that's doing what must be done for his country. sorry for the late reply, was out lol.

Ordinarygamer96-Today at 4:28 PM

ya realize he has cops murdering suspected criminals in their homes right

Key word is suspected

And also murder

Timeassassin103-Today at 4:41 PM

so? a suspect is a suspect and must be dealt with by any means

drugs? beheading

stole a purse? firing squad

ajsimeon-Today at 4:43 PM

You're right, murder is wrong, i'm not gonna pretend that's a good thing... but the Philippines isn't like America or most free countries. Murder happens frequently over there regardless of who's killing and who's being killed. It sounds really bad saying that it's no different that suspected criminals are being killed compared to all the murders happening. It definitely is a shame that innocent people are also dragged into this drug "war" but that just shows how bad it actually is over there.

Ordinarygamer96-Today at 5:23 PM

it's already been documented that people are being intentionally killed by cops for personal reasons and explained away as being drug dealers. And the guy has basically attacked political opponents and threatened them

 

Instead of butting in to what everyone was talking about on discord (since I wasn't really at my computer lol...) I made this post so I can respond.

 

@Ordinarygamer96 Okay well, when you say documented, you mean by people from the Philippines or people that are seeing it from another (better off) country? I know people who live over there and who moved from there that experience(d) first hand what it's like in the Philippines. It's a WAR on drugs. The world is only focused on what Duterte is doing, yet there's rebel terrorists wreaking havoc. Look at the both sides of the picture. There are Rebel groups that kill people and make it look like the dirty work of cops, but not only are they rebelling against Duterte, they've been rebelling against the Philippines and its people for years for allowing America to somewhat influence the country. There's no denying the presence of corrupt cops in the Philippines, but what about in America or other countries? Not to mention the Rebels again, abusing the order to kill that was given to the police force. They kill those that they want to without evidence and blame the police/"vigilantes". And regarding Duterte's attacks/threats to political opponents, you mean physical or verbal? Verbally, he isn't good at speaking English since Tagalog is his native language. However, he speaks his mind and is not hypocrytical. He has warranted investigations on many Philippine officals to make sure that none of them have any ties with rebel/terrorist factions. At the end of the day, all the stuff going on over there is a horrible and disturbing mess, and I'm not trying to morally justify killings/murders. But, at the very least, Duterte sees all the crap that's going on and is choosing to do something about it. He's not a tyrant trying to control the country with fear. Most of the people in the Philippines fear the terrorism that Duterte is fighting against. It's hard for people not living in the Philippines to understand.

[Ordinarygamer96 785]

For starters he threatened to kill journalists he judged "corrupt" http://time.com/4353279/duterte-philippines-journalists-assassination/

and theres also been police killings of innocents literally in the streets https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/23/please-stop-brutal-killing-of-a-student-in-philippines-drug-war-sparks-nationwide-anger

[HM04 1]

I feel like you didn't fully understand what @ajsimeon said.

 

It's really difficult to understand what he is saying if you aren't living or don't know someone in the Philippines. You don't understand how bad it is and are probably living in a safer, free country. it is a shame innocent people are getting dragged into this mess, but there will always be casualties in any war or battle. you can only lessen the damage. There are going to be people that agree and disagree with Duterte's methods, but there are also going to be corrupt people taking advantage of the situation. Hence the reason why Duterte has a problem with "corrupt" people. He doesn't want corrupt people(mainly those who are tied or siding with the rebel terrorists) to be influential to the Philippine ppl. So you have Horrible people doing horrible things, taking advantage of a horrible situation. what are you going to do about it? 

 

My main question is: What specific point you are trying to focus on? What specific aspect do you not agree with(obviously murder, but no one thinks murder is okay), or do you just not like Duterte?

[ajsimeon 100]

Okay, so off of the first article "Rodrigo Duterte warned journalists in the Philippines that they are legitimate targets for assassination if they do wrong". What is "wrong"? I get what you mean, these are just journalists. Why would anyone care to threaten them? Bear in mind, however, these are journalists in the Philippines, a third world country where it's hard to make a living. But the operational definition of wrong can be anything. According to the article, the journalists are targets for assassination... Not necessarily by authorities. Now there is this article: https://cpj.org/2017/07/philippine-radio-commentator-critically-wounded-in.php where a journalist was shot a few months ago. Now I don't know about you, but that alone, to me just makes the Philippines a messed up place to be in (not to mention the stories that my mom always told me about when little kids would get abducted if left out somewhere... even in the big malls/metro areas).

 

The author, Simon Lewis, actually writes in the 4th paragraph that Duterte explained why at least 75 journalists have been murdered since 1992. They were killed because they did something. Not just because they were corrupt. "You won't be killed if you don't do anything wrong" You being the journalists that you're talking about. So he's pretty much warning these journalists. Saying that to people who are trying to get to the bottom of things is really something, but that's how reality is in the Philippines.

 

Let me just get this cleared up though. I see what you're saying about murdering suspected criminals. I get that. Killings that were sanctioned by Duterte, a person who's the leader of a country, is very unsettling. Murders. You're right. It's messed up, but the whole country is messed up. You have to think though, this is someone that's trying to pull the country back out of the gutter. It doesn't justify murders or any of that, but the Philippines has legit been in the gutters for as long as I can remember.

 

As I said before, Duterte is doing what must be done. A lot of people don't like it because it involves killing off people. But, with so many people in poverty and the whole country just being out of whack, how can a leader work to move the country forward? I have no idea. But he is, at the very least, trying to do something. It's not a nice thing, but it's something. Again, it's hard to understand completely the situation that the Philippines is in if you don't live there. 

[Ordinarygamer96 785]

1 hour ago, ajsimeon said:

Okay, so off of the first article "Rodrigo Duterte warned journalists in the Philippines that they are legitimate targets for assassination if they do wrong". What is "wrong"? I get what you mean, these are just journalists. Why would anyone care to threaten them? Bear in mind, however, these are journalists in the Philippines, a third world country where it's hard to make a living. But the operational definition of wrong can be anything. According to the article, the journalists are targets for assassination... Not necessarily by authorities. Now there is this article: https://cpj.org/2017/07/philippine-radio-commentator-critically-wounded-in.php where a journalist was shot a few months ago. Now I don't know about you, but that alone, to me just makes the Philippines a messed up place to be in (not to mention the stories that my mom always told me about when little kids would get abducted if left out somewhere... even in the big malls/metro areas).

 

The author, Simon Lewis, actually writes in the 4th paragraph that Duterte explained why at least 75 journalists have been murdered since 1992. They were killed because they did something. Not just because they were corrupt. "You won't be killed if you don't do anything wrong" You being the journalists that you're talking about. So he's pretty much warning these journalists. Saying that to people who are trying to get to the bottom of things is really something, but that's how reality is in the Philippines.

 

Let me just get this cleared up though. I see what you're saying about murdering suspected criminals. I get that. Killings that were sanctioned by Duterte, a person who's the leader of a country, is very unsettling. Murders. You're right. It's messed up, but the whole country is messed up. You have to think though, this is someone that's trying to pull the country back out of the gutter. It doesn't justify murders or any of that, but the Philippines has legit been in the gutters for as long as I can remember.

 

As I said before, Duterte is doing what must be done. A lot of people don't like it because it involves killing off people. But, with so many people in poverty and the whole country just being out of whack, how can a leader work to move the country forward? I have no idea. But he is, at the very least, trying to do something. It's not a nice thing, but it's something. Again, it's hard to understand completely the situation that the Philippines is in if you don't live there. 

The article you linked straight up said that the guy who was shot was a critic of the local government. So basically its likely the local government and Duterte had him shot. Are you really incapable of understanding the implication when a strongman leader threatens journalists if they do "wrong". It literally always means "criticize me and  I will kill you". Duterte isnt making the country better. Hes unleashing a indiscriminate bloodbath so him and his cronies can be in complete control. Common filipino people probably can barely follow whats happening because once again he has threatened local journalists that speak out. He's essentially created a situation where the murders by criminals have been replaced with murders by cops except they have legal permission to go around shooting people. Under his policies someone could theoretically say "hey my neighbor is a drug dealer" and the cops could execute the guy and not get in trouble.

[ajsimeon 100]

Travesty asked me a question about my thoughts on Duterte, I told him what my thoughts were. You come and tell me, highlighting words such as murder and suspected, as if I have no idea what those words mean. I try to explain to you the situation that the Philippines is in, you know, since I'm Filipino, and I know people that experienced what is happening over there first hand.

 

All you're doing is pointing out that Duterte and his policy of killing drug dealers is a bad thing. I have said countless times that murder is not good.

9 minutes ago, Ordinarygamer96 said:

The article you linked straight up said that the guy who was shot was a critic of the local government. So basically its likely the local government and Duterte had him shot. Are you really incapable of understanding the implication when a strongman leader threatens journalists if they do "wrong".

Just because I don't entertain that as a possibility means that you can question my ability to comprehend implications? 

 

I don't know man, this whole thing, to me, started off as a "what do you think of Duterte" discussion. Now it's like a "this is why you're wrong for thinking of Duterte like that" discussion.

 

You can say however many times you want how corrupt he is. I know his policies are cray. But, sad to say (as I have said quite a few times already), the Philippines is messed up. Why do you think so many Filipinos moved out of there in the first place? I'm not talking about recently either... I also never said he was making the country better, I just said he's doing what must be done. And again (hopefully for the last time) it's not going to be easy to understand how messed up it REALLY is over there without actually living there.