ISIS attacks on Paris, state of emergency

[Fugner 1019]

I don't even want to go into detail because it'll spark more controversy.

Why not? This forum is meant for debate and everyone has been calm and respectful so far. I agree with travesty, it's nice to see some intelligent discussion on the forums.

[frogr 1]

Can we talk about this? Sound familiar? 

 

( If you don't feel comfortable clicking the link it's basically a post about Donald Trump saying he'd require registration of all Muslims, and I apologize if this was already posted, I skimmed through the whole thing lmao )

[Dr. NarwhalsNumbNuts IV 2291]

Can we talk about this? Sound familiar? 

 

( If you don't feel comfortable cliking the link it's basically a post about Donald Trump saying he'd require regeristration of all Muslims, and I apologize if this was already posted, I skimmed through the whole thing lmao )

I saw that. I laughed and immediately decided that if I've asked to label myself or identify myself as Muslim, I'll probably punch that bastard in the face. Hitler and his party did the exact same thing to the Jews of Poland. What's different about this?

[frogr 1]

He's probably the worst politician I've ever seen in America. 

The amount of disrespect and islamophobia is just awful. I hope the USA keeps an eye open and doesn't repeat history again. ISIS is most defiantly not what Muslims represent. People just be more educated honestly. I hate uneducated people, lmao.

[driz 2626]

I hope we register everyone straight up. I also support chipping every one of you fuckers.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

People just be more educated honestly. I hate uneducated people, lmao.

Trump is a graduate of Wharton...

[Howard Dean 2502]

Trump is a graduate of Wharton...

LOL WHAT IS WHARTON WHAT A NOOB SCHOOL NOT EVEN AN IVY LEAGUE NEVER HEARD OF IT

 

I KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT POLITICS AND THE SITUATION OF THE WORLD BECAUSE I KNOW EVERYTHING

 

(kidding btw)

[trav 6834]

Trump is a graduate of Wharton...

I feel like Trump is getting tired of the campaign trail and is now just saying more and more ridiculous statements because he wants out. Too bad it's not working because there's a voter base with people like Driz.

Also the dude has a bachelor of science lol. Just because he went to Wharton doesn't make him an expert on foreign affairs. He's a big time real estate manager. He knows just about as much of world politics as you and me.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

I feel like Trump is getting tired of the campaign trail and is now just saying more and more ridiculous statements because he wants out. Too bad it's not working because there's a voter base with people like Driz.

Also the dude has a bachelor of science lol. Just because he went to Wharton doesn't make him an expert on foreign affairs. He's a big time real estate manager. He knows just about as much of world politics as you and me.

Not really a great argument attacking his education and experience. UPenn is an Ivy League school with an acceptance rate of less than 10%. Also his business school scrutinize their applicants more than general university admissions. Yes, he has a BS. I have a BS, driz has a BS. So what? His biggest challenger has an M.D. The republican nominee will be highly qualified to sell real estate or remove a tumor, but it doesn't make them less qualified to speak the truth or make drastic changes in American Foreign Policy. Smart people surround themselves with smarter people. Trump's and Carson's cabinet will provide expert advice.

[trav 6834]

Not really a great argument attacking his education and experience. UPenn is an Ivy League school with an acceptance rate of less than 10%. Also his business school scrutinize their applicants more than general university admissions. Yes, he has a BS. I have a BS, driz has a BS. So what? His biggest challenger has an M.D. The republican nominee will be highly qualified to sell real estate or remove a tumor, but it doesn't make them less qualified to speak the truth or my drastic changes in American Foreign Policy. Smart people surround themselves with smarter people. Trump's and Carson's cabinet will provide expert advice.

There's no doubt about that. You could argue that for every single candidate. But that doesn't make him educated on the topic, just because he went to an Ivy league school or that his business school rejects a lot of people.

What I'm saying is he has just about as much experience or knowledge of foreign policy as Driz, you or me.

[frogr 1]

Hitler was educated.

It's not about college. Any person can go to a university, get amazing grades, but still be uneducated. Requiring Muslims to have an ID is uneducated. 

 

Plus, there's no reason unless he'd be planning to repeat history. 

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

Hitler was educated.

It's not about college. Any person can go to a university, get amazing grades, but still be uneducated. Requiring Muslims to have an ID is uneducated.

Plus, there's no reason unless he'd be planning to repeat history.

No frogr "any person" can't. I don't think you understand the meaning of uneducated. You may not agree with Trump's ideology, but he's not uneducated.

You're making a lot of statements about higher education. Where did you earn your undergrad?

I suggest you amend "uneducated" to "uninformed". Trump is "uninformed" about many aspects of politics, but many of his world views match a large number of republican voters.

[Jodas 1542]

Hitler was educated.

He wasn´t. Hitler didn´t even finish school.

 

Not that it is important or anything. I just wanted to point it out. 

[Howard Dean 2502]

He wasn´t. Hitler didn´t even finish school.

 

Not that it is important or anything. I just wanted to point it out. 

http://www.history.co.uk/biographies/adolf-hitler

 

Just to back up Jodas

[trav 6834]

No frogr "any person" can't. I don't think you understand the meaning of uneducated. You may not agree with Trump's ideology, but he's not uneducated.

You're making a lot of statements about higher education. Where did you earn your undergrad?

I suggest you amend "uneducated" to "uninformed". Trump is "uninformed" about many aspects of politics, but many of his world views match a large number of republican voters.

This I can agree on

That being said, registering someone for being Muslim should only be done if you're registering all religions.

Either way it's ridiculous to me.

[frogr 1]

Oops, my bad about my Hitler education thing. 

Either way, the whole thing is shady and drawn out of fear.

[driz 2626]

Register 100% of ppl. Ezpz. That being said I would guess trump has more foreign policy knowledge than anyone in SG, it's impossible to prove so why discuss it?

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[trav 6834]

Register 100% of ppl. Ezpz.

 

Is it easy? How much money would it cost to do so? What is the point of registering anyone and their religion?

 

I don't understand the logic of doing this. Maybe you can explain.

[driz 2626]

I never said register based on religion, you came up with that in your own. Register everyone entering the country, if you find someone unregistered immediately deport them. We, more or less, do this in Afghanistan right now, it's highly effective. Would it work here, maybe not, with a shot though.

Should we add religion data? No, it's not useful. There are military converts registered as Catholic that are practicing Muslims. Religion records are only valid as long as they're valid. DNA, fingerprints, and retinal scans are typically always accurate (barring certain circumstances)

The cost is less than obamacare or giving free education to illegal immigrants, so negligible in the grand scheme.

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[trav 6834]

I never said register based on religion, you came up with that in your own.

 

No, Trump did. This whole conversation on Trump started because he wants to register Muslims alone.

 

See below:

 

Can we talk about this? Sound familiar? 

 

( If you don't feel comfortable clicking the link it's basically a post about Donald Trump saying he'd require registration of all Muslims, and I apologize if this was already posted, I skimmed through the whole thing lmao )

 

 

Edit: Isn't your idea of registration, just simply citizenship?

[centran 4457]

I don't get this whole registration/database thing... are these refugees getting automatic citizenship? If so then they would be registered in a way. I think what it is more is tracking them... but if they are here on some kind of visa thing with refugee status don't they have to be registered anyway? Are you telling me people just come here on a work visa or something like that and they are just in and we don't care where they live or what they are doing? That's not how it works and why should it be different for refugees?

 

Why is being registered/database a big deal. Isn't that what we do already? 

 

I say register them and track them till they become citizens which they must make an effort to do. That has nothing to do with worrying they are terrorists. Refugee was a big problem before this whole terrorist thing in Europe. Mostly it was the UK to blame. All someone had to do was make their way there which wasn't easy because the countries you had to go through would deport you. Then in UK declare asylum and they gave you housing, food, and a weekly allowance and you didn't have to do jack shit... ever. That is the problem right there. They where seeking these countries for a free ride. We need to put a stop to that shit. They should make efforts to get jobs, learn the national language, etc. 

[driz 2626]

No, Trump did. This whole conversation on Trump started because he wants to register Muslims alone.

 

See below:

 

 

 

Edit: Isn't your idea of registration, just simply citizenship?

I follow trump pretty closely, he never said "i want ONLY muslims to register" He has been very outspoken about registering all people entering the country and tightening border control. Linking to articles written by reporters looking for some publicity is not proof that something was said. Go find the actual interview and see what he said and consider his words in context. 

 

 

 

I don't get this whole registration/database thing... are these refugees getting automatic citizenship? If so then they would be registered in a way. I think what it is more is tracking them... but if they are here on some kind of visa thing with refugee status don't they have to be registered anyway? Are you telling me people just come here on a work visa or something like that and they are just in and we don't care where they live or what they are doing? That's not how it works and why should it be different for refugees?

 

Why is being registered/database a big deal. Isn't that what we do already? 

 

I say register them and track them till they become citizens which they must make an effort to do. That has nothing to do with worrying they are terrorists. Refugee was a big problem before this whole terrorist thing in Europe. Mostly it was the UK to blame. All someone had to do was make their way there which wasn't easy because the countries you had to go through would deport you. Then in UK declare asylum and they gave you housing, food, and a weekly allowance and you didn't have to do jack shit... ever. That is the problem right there. They where seeking these countries for a free ride. We need to put a stop to that shit. They should make efforts to get jobs, learn the national language, etc. 

It's not a big deal, it does happen already, kind of.... The problem is aside from a visa we dont track non-citizens in the country which is why i can goto wal-mart and pay a mexican 1$/hour to mow my yard or stain my fence. While i would hate to lose this capability, this is also how terrorists get in the country to learn how to fly a plane (but not land)

 

Refugees are historically a problem in every country because it takes money from the government housing them and you're dead on with what you're saying. If you register/track 100% of non-residents (and register (DNA/fingerprint/retinal) citizens) you gain 1) the ability to locate and deport as needed 2) ability to monitor their actions in accordance with refugee laws 3) the ability to deal with them if they are in fact a criminal (terrorist or otherwise)

 

Wasn't one of the big complaints about obama giving all the illegal kids the right to stay in the country, then of course it needed to extend to the parents because we dont want to put them all in the system.. This is one of the bigger issues trump wants to address. (carson also wants to address these issues, he learned about them while he was getting his doctorate at west point (in which he carried a 6.5GPA))

[trav 6834]

I follow trump pretty closely, he never said "i want ONLY muslims to register" He has been very outspoken about registering all people entering the country and tightening border control. Linking to articles written by reporters looking for some publicity is not proof that something was said. Go find the actual interview and see what he said and consider his words in context. 

 

Fair point. But I honestly thought that's what he was getting at. He's said some outlandish statements before so I didn't put it past him.

 

 

Refugees are historically a problem in every country

 

America was built on refugees and immigrants lol. I'd like you to please provide evidence of why bringing in refugees is a bad thing.

 

I'd like to note that on both sides of my family, my great grandparents were refugees who came to Canada (along with countless others now living in Canada). One side from Ukraine and the other from Ireland. Not only were they productive members of the country but they provided offspring that further helped out the economy as well.

 

I do agree proper screening needs to be done before taking in refugees but having someone come here from a war-torn country is not a bad thing by any means, especially when the country you live in is prosperous. 

 

 

History repeating itself:

 

"We need to stop the flow of Irish refugees before Fenian terrorists turn Canada into a Papist state"

 

 

Like many of you I was shocked to hear of the recent Fenian attacks on Fort Erie. How can our government allow Irish immigrants to flow into this United Province of Canada while we continue to be terrorized by Fenian religious zealots? Every Sunday in Catholic churches across the land, radical preachers are whipping their flocks into a catachismic frenzy, urging them to cram their Nicene orthodoxy down our throats three different ways. On every ship coming into Montreal or Halifax, hidden among the malnourished, diseased Irish there are sure to be Fenian terrorists ready to slit your throat at the first opportunity. This needs to stop now.

 

We all know that the Irish are a bunch of uneducated, colonial savages with a primitive religion. How will our women and children be safe while hoards of drunken Irish flow into our cities and roam the streets? Meanwhile they breed like rabbits, all part of their plan of Papist domination. It is a scientific fact that if Irish immigration continues apace Canada will be a Catholic state by 1910. Enjoy having your wine with communion, because that's all about to end. And if we let the Irish in, who's next - Ukrainians? Chinese? Musalmen?

 

It is our sacred duty to preserve Canadian values now, before it's too late. In 150 years your children's children will look back and know that you did the right thing.

 

Be sure to share this leaflet with all your friends (or at least those of them who can read... and you can probably skip the women, not like they can vote anyways). Say yes to Canada staying Canadian. Say no to Irish immigrants!

 

Rev. John Strachan,

 

York

 

June 1866

[driz 2626]

true story on trump spouting craziness at times it's why i like him

 

i'm not going to cite sources as a simple google search can easily show historical issues around the world due to the influx of refugees. It should also simply be common sense that an unexpected influx of people puts a significant burden on a country. Your post actually supports this, while it's one of those hatebash foreigners thing, it goes to the mentality of many people. 

 

As to refugees being a problem for any nation, your link furthers the point. Also bear in mind that 1) refugees != immigrants 2) while many refugees (maybe most, i have no clue) are productive members of society, the problem (for any government) is what to do with them. When refugees first arrive in country, you cant just hi5 them and walk off. You have to house, clothe, and feed them. This puts a monetary burden on the government which is usually heightened by the people who feel their taxes are paying for a free-ride for the refugees (while many of the same people complaining are descendants of refugees themselves)

 

We all know that the "people" drive the government, so if the people bitch enough about an influx of refugees, regardless of how upstanding they are, the government will typically slow the flow. What's the biggest problem with refugees in the US? We're assholes, straight up. We'll give money all day to the tsunami victims in another state but fuck the homeless on the wal-mart corner. We instantly assume he's using the money to buy crack while not batting an eye at giving millions in foreign aid.

 

We also instantly judge anyone who can't speak our language (now this probably wouldn't be such a problem if immigrants spoke the language, i dont personally expect refugees to speak our language, they didn't plan to come here (typically)).

 

Look at WWII refugees around the world and how they were treated. This is the primary reason it's a bad thing. Our government doesn't know how to properly handle the situation nor do our people. Hell the refugee problem was so bad following WWII the UN had to request international support in protecting refugees. That being said, in 100 years will the refugees who come over now be significant contributors? Maybe. It's still a population control and money issue (and will be for any country that takes in refugees because we dont keep a pot of money sitting around for such situations, we'd rather give it to the projects to support crack habits.

 

obviously im against free money to anyone. I'm completely ok with refugees who are here under the condition that they work to support themselves or at least work to cover the monetary burden they place on the nation. 

[trav 6834]

Firstly, well said and I agree with some of it.

 

i'm not going to cite sources as a simple google search can easily show historical issues around the world due to the influx of refugees. It should also simply be common sense that an unexpected influx of people puts a significant burden on a country. Your post actually supports this, while it's one of those hatebash foreigners thing, it goes to the mentality of many people. 

 

Sorry, I should have clarified. I obviously understand that a big influx of refugees (see Turkey right now) can be a problem for the country at handling them. But Turkey isn't allowing these refugees to work or do anything right now, of course the large number of them could be a nuisance. I personally don't think they're handling the crisis properly right now but at least they're giving them temporary shelter from Syria.

 

Just for information: my post was a satirical made up quote by John Strachan (similar to what people do with Abe Lincoln quotes) to portray how some people in Canada (and around the world) currently view the refugee crisis. I don't see how my post supports a burden on a country though.

 

Interesting fact: First/second generation Irish immigrants were close to a quarter of the population of Canada in 1867... today that would be like admitting ten million refugees.

 

25,000 immigrants (the promise Prime Minister Trudeau made) is absolutely nothing compared to the massive wave of Irish into Canada in the 1800s.

 

 

As to refugees being a problem for any nation, your link furthers the point. Also bear in mind that 1) refugees != immigrants 2) while many refugees (maybe most, i have no clue) are productive members of society, the problem (for any government) is what to do with them. When refugees first arrive in country, you cant just hi5 them and walk off. You have to house, clothe, and feed them. This puts a monetary burden on the government which is usually heightened by the people who feel their taxes are paying for a free-ride for the refugees (while many of the same people complaining are descendants of refugees themselves)

 

obviously im against free money to anyone. I'm completely ok with refugees who are here under the condition that they work to support themselves or at least work to cover the monetary burden they place on the nation. 

 

 

See this is the thing though, I'm pretty confident the United States is prosperous enough, being that it's one of the richest countries in the world, to not only afford but also house and support the refugees for a year. After that, they're on their own (at least that's how it is in Canada). They've been given a chance to become productive members of society and find a means of living comfortably, which is better than having more homeless people to worry about (giving them nothing to live off of when they get here). Taking in refugees and saying "figure it out" is not going to work either. Setting a limit to how many refugees you take in could be a good idea too but to say no to all of them (not saying you are) is outlandish and completely merciless.

 

For information:

 

Monetary income a refugee gets in Canada:

• Government assisted refugees have access to financial assistance from the federal government through the Resettlement Assistance Program (RAP).  This financial assistance is generally for one year maximum and is received only if they do not have their own financial resources or income. The exact rate depends on the size of the family and is tied to social assistance rates.  In Ontario in July 2013, for example, a single person receives $781 per month.

http://ccrweb.ca/en/refugees-and-income-assistance-rebutting-chain-email-pensioners-myth

 

So basically they get the same as people on welfare or the poverty line (if not less), except there is a deadline on their monetary support.

 

 

By giving free money to anyone, you mean you're against welfare as well though I suppose.

 

 

We all know that the "people" drive the government, so if the people bitch enough about an influx of refugees, regardless of how upstanding they are, the government will typically slow the flow. What's the biggest problem with refugees in the US? We're assholes, straight up. We'll give money all day to the tsunami victims in another state but fuck the homeless on the wal-mart corner. We instantly assume he's using the money to buy crack while not batting an eye at giving millions in foreign aid.

 

We also instantly judge anyone who can't speak our language (now this probably wouldn't be such a problem if immigrants spoke the language, i dont personally expect refugees to speak our language, they didn't plan to come here (typically)).

 

Look at WWII refugees around the world and how they were treated. This is the primary reason it's a bad thing. Our government doesn't know how to properly handle the situation nor do our people. Hell the refugee problem was so bad following WWII the UN had to request international support in protecting refugees. That being said, in 100 years will the refugees who come over now be significant contributors? Maybe. It's still a population control and money issue (and will be for any country that takes in refugees because we dont keep a pot of money sitting around for such situations, we'd rather give it to the projects to support crack habits.

 

This is where I agree with you about how some people in the US and Canada are. "We're assholes" "We also instantly judge"

 

This is what is wrong. These people are quite literally running for their lives. They want to get away from their war-torn country which isn't feasible to live in anymore. They want to get as far away as they can from ISIS and I'm sure most probably hate those fuckers just as much as we do. A good amount of these people are similar to you and me. They're human beings after all. They simply just want to live in comfortable means. If our countries are able to take these desperate people in, why shouldn't we?

 

In my eyes, the main thing fueling this distaste for refugees is the "War on Terror" and the fear that comes from it. Which honestly, is understandable and not totally unreasonable but can easily get out of hand.

 

However for me, it would be completely un-Canadian to not take in any refugees during this time of crisis.