List of small change suggestions

[Face 1910]

Exactly this, I never understood why items like Claws were ever raised... cash is rarely a problem for me on War3 even on the maps that do glitch the ability to give for the entire map. Some of our items are too expensive in the shopmenu, most of it is spot on but things like Claws, Enchanted Chain Mail, Sock of Feather... there was no need to raise the prices of these items. 

Periapt, fair enough, that's an OP item so deserves the price its on, the rest is meh. 

Some of my favorite races are a lot less playable without things like chain/regen which can no longer be afforded >85% of rounds

 

I think it'd be worth reducing the prices, but instituting a lot more restrictions (e.g..... chain on infected wtf why is that still a thing)

Edited February 13, 2015 by Face

[Yiyas 66]

I think the main issue was that the shop gives out too much power to races that don't need it. Claws/Chain have such a varied effect simply based on the weapon you use while a health tome really messes up the balance of the round. Sock of feather is so effective it's sometimes an essential item to certain races. The lack of choice is uninteresting, which is why I pushed the category limit in source, forcing you to decide between various items. The only thing I don't agree on is the 2ndary clip extender which is probably $1500 only because of the autopistols added in CSGO. Overall, if you can get these items every round then they might as well be on every race by default and if we didn't have the betting it wouldn't really be required to raise the prices.

 

If some of the current races are now 'weak' with higher prices then I say they should be buffed in certain ways.

 

That being said, I only use crusader/wisdom in shopmenu myself because I don't have the space for binds on my keyboard (roccat arvo) and the menu is really clunky in csgo.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Yiyas

[B-cock #1 641]

So, remove all items except for books/tomes and non major shop items like sun glasses then buff races accordingly?

[Yiyas 66]

So, remove all items except for books/tomes and non major shop items like sun glasses then buff races accordingly?

I think there should be more choice, more balance, more decisions. I remember playing source: 1-2-3 crusader,claws,ring of armour. Every. Round. I survived? 4-5-6 chainmail, invis, orb of fire. God forbid I didn't have 10,000 levels and wanted to buy xp tomes instead to actually level the races instead of rape shit. Something simple like claws doing +3 dmg for smgs, +5 for rifles, +8 for shotguns/pistols but still being $1000.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Yiyas

[Face 1910]

So I stopped and I thought about why I don't like the shop menu prices, as I wasn't entirely sure what my reasoning was but I know I don't like it as much as I used to.

I came to the following conclusion. Maybe others will disagree, maybe it will hit home.

 

With the old shop menu, I was regularly buying items. I'd go steve and buy chain+ring every round, and if i lived maybe boots/claw. I'd play archimonde and get boots and sock for insane as fuck long jump. I'd maybe go KJ and buy long jump, or other things of the sorts.

With the new shop menu, I buy tomes. And I buy tomes. And I buy tomes. And sometimes I will do something weird and buy items, but mostly I just buy crusaders wish and tomes and nothing else. Some races are much better with a single item, so on those I might splurge and buy it, but mostly I don't or I simply don't play those races.

In the current state, I feel like for myself (I surely do not speak for everyone and do not intend to) that the vast majority of the shopmenu is largely inaccessible. I do not buy neck, I do not buy mask, I do not buy long jump, I do not buy periapt. If I do buy these things, it is when I'm playing a race like advent where I cannot buy tomes, so I will buy periapt. While I might be slightly above average, I die frequently enough that spending 3.5k on a chain just to lose it in 2 rounds tops is simply never worth it (unless OP infected imba, which I don't play because I have some self respect). If this is what we wanted, I would say lower the prices and restrict everyone to 2 or 3 items instead of 6 (then adjust sin because of the shopwhore skill).

 

Maybe I'm the only one that started playing like this though. But in summary: as a mediocre player, the shopmenu no longer feels accessible 95% of the time.

 

Edit: I asked my friend Kruger (who plays somewhat often) what he thought of the price changes:

7:54 PM - Kruger: i buy them much less frequently

7:54 PM - Kruger: they're just too expensive to lose to a random death

7:54 PM - Kruger: early in a round

7:54 PM - Kruger: it really saps the fun out of them

7:55 PM - Kruger: when on a regular basis if you want to play aggressive you just get hosed

Edited February 14, 2015 by Face

[skitt 1307]

So, what i'm hearing is we need more ways to generate revenue

 

 

 

 

"races are a lot less playable without things like chain/regen which can no longer be afforded >85% of rounds"

r u real

 

 

 

 

 

I think the main issue was that the shop gives out too much power to races that don't need it. Claws/Chain have such a varied effect simply based on the weapon you use while a health tome really messes up the balance of the round. Sock of feather is so effective it's sometimes an essential item to certain races. The lack of choice is uninteresting, which is why I pushed the category limit in source, forcing you to decide between various items. The only thing I don't agree on is the 2ndary clip extender which is probably $1500 only because of the autopistols added in CSGO. Overall, if you can get these items every round then they might as well be on every race by default and if we didn't have the betting it wouldn't really be required to raise the prices.

 

If some of the current races are now 'weak' with higher prices then I say they should be buffed in certain ways.

 

That being said, I only use crusader/wisdom in shopmenu myself because I don't have the space for binds on my keyboard (roccat arvo) and the menu is really clunky in csgo.

 

yea

[Battlecrab 22]

Why not try moderating the prices to a midpoint to what they were before and expanding restrictions? $3.5K may be a tad too high for claws/chainmail but something lower could work, especially if the "OP" races were universally restricted.

[thorgot 2420]

We also had an idea to do upgradable items, like how on wcs you could buy multiple items of the same sort. Then we could have a weaker, cheap version of items that you could buy most rounds and you could spend double to get the current item.

[Battlecrab 22]

That's an interesting idea and would allow for greater playstyle customization but there's the concern that it takes you 20 seconds to do your buy in spawn as well

[Face 1910]

"races are a lot less playable without things like chain/regen which can no longer be afforded >85% of rounds"

r u real

 

In my opinion, yes. The better a race is, the less valuable items are. The marginal benefit of items decreases as the race is stronger. Therefore, some races are more affected by lack of items than others. For example, I'd argue that a class like Ranger of the Woods is better than ~60% of the races WITH one or two cheap items.

 

Again, this is just my opinion.

 

Also for the "upgraded" items, it could just be 2 of the same items to lower purchasing burden. E.g. "buy chain" buys the first level of chain, (say -4 damage per hit) then "buy chain" when you have the first level upgrades it to the 2nd level (say -7 damage per hit). That would mean everyone's hotkeys would still be valid and the menu doesn't have to be altered a ton.

[thorgot 2420]

Also for the "upgraded" items, it could just be 2 of the same items to lower purchasing burden. E.g. "buy chain" buys the first level of chain, (say -4 damage per hit) then "buy chain" when you have the first level upgrades it to the 2nd level (say -7 damage per hit). That would mean everyone's hotkeys would still be valid and the menu doesn't have to be altered a ton.

Exactly.

 

And I'm not sure what the shopmenu does at the moment, but it could be changed to stay in the same submenu so you can just hit the same key twice to buy the item and the upgrade(s).

[HCMikey 248]

INCOMING BUFF FOR SHOPKEEPER

[Yiyas 66]

Should be easy enough to add stackables, I imagine at the moment it's a "hasitem" sort of thing. That being said, in source I had to completely redo shopmenu because it sucked colossal logical dick so it can take a frustrating while. Does the war3 come with a category limit? I can't remember if I added that solely for my 'unique' category of super op shop items you can only have one of or not. The combination of stacking items and restriction should be enough to merit lesser prices.

[Face 1910]

I thought of something that may or may not be a good idea but maybe it is worth thinking about:

 

A big issue people had with low shop prices was a player like spicy can almost always have 6 items. He lives for so long that he is always able to do a full rebuy when he respawns.

A way to have cheaper (even if only marginally cheaper) items while also preventing this (without having a smaller item limit) is to have items degrade over a certain number of rounds. Say, 3 rounds. If you buy a chain on round 5, and haven't died yet, on round 9 it is gone and you must rebuy it if you wish to still have its effects.

This lets people benefit by staying alive when they buy their items, but does not give them the full advantage of "well you lived for ~5 rounds so now you can rebuy all your items and always have 6 items."

 

Maybe a shit idea, but I don't know.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Face

[Ika 320]

"races are a lot less playable without things like chain/regen which can no longer be afforded >85% of rounds"

r u real

 

Boots of Speed alone turns at least a dozen races from shit-tier to viable, and some to OP status.

[Face 1910]

I'm gonna use this thread to continue with small suggestions.

 

I feel like pyro would be a lot better if it did slightly more burn damage. It is pyro after all. I have rounds where I hit 5-10 people with nades and incendiary etc. and the entire damage log is like 10-30 damage per player. You really just soften people up and don't even get into the assist range, and kills are near impossible without the knife and (sometimes) the ult, but often times the ult isn't even enough.

[Ika 320]

I'm gonna use this thread to continue with small suggestions.

 

I feel like pyro would be a lot better if it did slightly more burn damage. It is pyro after all. I have rounds where I hit 5-10 people with nades and incendiary etc. and the entire damage log is like 10-30 damage per player. You really just soften people up and don't even get into the assist range, and kills are near impossible without the knife and (sometimes) the ult, but often times the ult isn't even enough.

 

If you want buffs on Pyro you can make the knife a "flamethrower", with some kind of AOE damage/on-hit fire a la Goliath's Big Swings.