shopmenu shenanigans

[skitt 1307]

Warcraft 3 players of the sG community, what do you all think? These shopmenu changes were put into effect in attempt to lessen the gap between players who are doing well, and players who are not doing as well.

 

Changing the shopmenu to a subset of items is a very drastic change, but potentially very beneficial for current and future race balance, as well as drastically reducing avg power gap between all players. I believe this option makes the game a bit more competitive as an FPS. 

 

Keeping shopmenu with price increases. The prices are still subject to change, but not all too drastically. I am still crunching numbers and testing some things out. To a smaller degree, this option also makes it more difficult to become powerful at a faster rate. Ya, cash rounds exist, but now killing that person becomes that much more valuable. (maybe it wouldn't hurt to implement a bounty system based on the number/value of items a player has) 

 

Both options are pretty legit, i think. Shopmenu is a tricky bitch that is on basically(only played 1 server with stripped shop) every warcraft mod server.  Most servers don't throw 16ks at the players all the time. So shopmenu really isn't too big of a deal in those servers. However, with all the cash flow we have on our wc3 server(bounty system, betting system, admin giving cash) the shopmenu is a bit more accessible then usual. This kinda throws things off. It rewards players for managing there financials a bit too much. You can turn races you think are trash, into actual gods. (KJ with and without LJ is night and day without persistent speed bhopping) 

 

I am purely trying to make our server as good as it can be. I think this is a good change, maybe some people do not think that way. I want to hear opinions on the matter. 

[Name 2616]

The big issue here is that two of the strongest shopmenu items unachievable by players who are buying tomes are Periapt and Scroll, and they both stayed on the server. I think the variety of shopmenu was good and it's a big part of the game. Prices can always use balancing (I've always thought claws and chain were a steal at 1k a pop), but having the options there makes the game more involved.

[turbulance 105]

I would love to see the shopmenu stripped down to its core functions and then be priced accordingly. I remember when the respawn scroll was 10k and periphat was 8.5k everything had a meaty cost to it because they were strong and they still are. For a while now scroll is basically "I totally got 8 k to blow" *respawns as infect fucks up everyones bet*. I like where the prices are going the shopmenu just needs to be respected and currently no one has until recently when the prices went up. I also honestly have not seen much push back from the server except the standard people who usually have something to say about everything *cough serif/face*

Edited November 20, 2014 by turbulance

[Face 1910]

I would love to see the shopmenu stripped down to its core functions and then be priced accordingly. I remember when the respawn scroll was 10k and periphat was 8.5k everything had a meaty cost to it because they were strong and they still are. For a while now scroll is basically "I totally got 8 k to blow" *respawns as infect fucks up everyones bet*. I like where the prices are going the shopmenu just needs to be respected and currently no one has until recently when the prices went up. I also honestly have not seen much push back from the server except the standard people who usually have something to say about everything *cough serif/face*

I at no point made a fuss about the shop menu changes (except maybe how they were messed with so suddenly without people knowing it was happening). I think I said I don't understand the logic behind some of the numbers (e.g. periapt only going up $500). I don't really care what happens either way, but I do think balancing prices around "admins will be in the server giving out cash at all times" hurts those that play at odd hours (which generally isn't even me, so that would rarely affect me).

 

I really think periapt, chain, regen, and mask were all underpriced by at least 1k. I think claw was underpriced a little (I view it as less valuable than chain because chain stacks with the other survivability items), I've never been sure how I feel about LJ as an item but if it was going to be one I don't really know the price. Those are really the only items I mess with so the rest I barely have opinions on (I didn't even get in on the whole remove neck/add ice totem thing, while I think there might be problems with neck on troll, I don't think the item itself is inherently the problem).

Edited November 20, 2014 by Face

[B-cock #1 641]

Vote is invalid, no "X" option. Won't anyone think of the 1 spammers!?

[skitt 1307]

Health only went up by that much because respawn only went up by 888. I look at health as near 50% of a respawn. That obviously isn't true for all races. I wanted to show how powerful respawn was when i stripped shop. It is stupid cheap. I really want to increase respawn price to about 10-13k. periapt might be more suitable at 6-7k. 

 

I think necklace is at a fine price. For those that don't know, ice totem was an item sold for 4k that simply unfroze you every 0.33s. It was stupid cheap, and pretty much made knife races much happier against races with root. It was an awesome item, and I'm confident I could add it to this server. However, It definitely wouldn't be just 4k. It is a very strong item that is extraordinarily strong on knife races. 

[Destin 1958]

Why no pistol clip extender in the second option? ;~;

[Name 2616]

As a fan of balance, ice totem scares me

 

As a fan of knife races, ice totem enthralls me

[skitt 1307]

Why no pistol clip extender in the second option? ;~;

mistake. should be

[Rootbeer 1293]

As a fan of balance, ice totem scares me

 

Isn't ice totem the most balanced item in terms of anti-CC? It doesn't completely negate the effects of it and also if the person CCing you doesn't have the skill level to kill you within the half second you're unable to move, you're able to fight back against them.

 

Imo if we want to start balancing our servers, we should also start thinking about buffing the more underpowered and underplayed races in the server and not just completely rehauling the shopmenu.

[turbulance 105]

shop menu item that reduces bonus damage shopmenu item that ignores evade.

[skitt 1307]

Isn't ice totem the most balanced item in terms of anti-CC? It doesn't completely negate the effects of it and also if the person CCing you doesn't have the skill level to kill you within the half second you're unable to move, you're able to fight back against them.

 

Imo if we want to start balancing our servers, we should also start thinking about buffing the more underpowered and underplayed races in the server and not just completely rehauling the shopmenu.

I agree that some races need to be balanced better. I'm sorry that I don't have much time to gauge how powerful all the races are. I don't even know what half the races do, unfortunately. The shopmenu change is a bit different type of balance then just balancing races, but I understand where you are coming from. It was much easier to see the power differential when I played wcs like 10 hours a day. 

 

Ice totem does seem like a more balanced item because of the nature of how it works. It really put a muzzle on freeze races(humanliance) and roots. Roots obviously being the big one, because it lasts much longer and it is treated as an ultimate(and usually is one). anti-cc should exist, but it shouldn't be as attainable as ice totem used to be. Adding things to shopmenu is difficult and should be handled with extreme care. Some concepts need to just be implemented into races that are released. This is the best way to release new concepts, such as anti-freeze. Just putting it into the shopmenu makes it a globally attainable attribute that everyone can obtain. Necklace is a prime example of an item I'd like to see not in the shopmenu. It is extraordinarily powerful and should be on more races(ulti immu) that are released, which hasn't been the case for quite some time. 

 

I guess what I'm trying to get at is the shopmenu shouldn't be seen as such a powerful entity that it really tilts the table on the balance of a race/player. Races should have slightly different power differences, but this is negated by race/skill counters. Some races are good at some stuff, others at other stuff. In my eyes, fyndhorn is pretty damn powerful, but mostly because of it's movement. It doesn't have any extra hp, and it doesn't have ulti immunity. roots/bashes and the addition of a much needed race, devil servant, are some decent counters to this seemingly powerful movement. If we just simply added ice totem to the shopmenu, we have to notice that all of those bashes/roots just went out the window. 

 

Ice totem would be nice to have. I fucking hate being frozen so very much. I believe it is a really strong mechanic that needs some kind of counter. Personally, I think more races need to sport the attribute before we bring it into the shop, though. That is just my opinion. However, it could just get added if the majority of people want it. It would most likely be somewhere around 6-9k. 

[HCMikey 248]

Can we just get rid of the shopmenu and make the shopmenu items appear randomly around the map sort of like quake? Occasionally throw in a package in game so that if a player runs over it and picks it up they get something like claws and enchanted chainmail. We did it for the Halloween event and it was quite nice.

Edited November 21, 2014 by HornyCat

[xmen 983]

Pls no

[HCMikey 248]

Pls no

 

pls yes

[xmen 983]

pls yes

so you'd like to enable the shopmenu for the op lj races only? :<

[Destin 1958]

This is all just a huge plan to secretly buff troll by making its ult out last all entangles

[HCMikey 248]

so you'd like to enable the shopmenu for the op lj races only? :<

 

Whats wrong with a longjumping,boots of speed, mask of death,claws, enchanted chainmail, extra health, regenerating wizard of the everlasting?

[HCMikey 248]

This is all just a huge plan to secretly buff troll by making its ult out last all entangles

You have it all wrong. This is a deeper conspiracy to indirectly buff defaults expertise with the increase in shopmenu prices.

 

EDIT: Forum went wacky with double post instead of edit, da fuck.

Edited November 21, 2014 by HornyCat

[Destin 1958]

You have it all wrong. This is a deeper conspiracy to indirectly buff defaults expertise with the increase in shopmenu prices.

not to mention Orcish horde expertise is now $13K in shopmenu >.> Edited November 21, 2014 by Destin

[xmen 983]

That's cause orc expertise op

[xmen 983]

Doesn't matter though trinity master race

[HCMikey 248]

The double posts are so real right now. Are the forums ok? 

Edited November 21, 2014 by HornyCat