Underrepresentation in Democracy

[UnknownLegend 5480]

Not at all, I think you as a minority have every right that I do. A human is a human and I respect all life, but seeing as we live in a democratic state...the majority should have the final say. It was an institution that was there for a reason, because many who helped found this nation put their trust in prayer. Why did it suddenly change? Because a few people were upset that it was there? Why should we change our foundations to cater to others? This isn't some 10 year law that was revoked, it was something that had been around forever, something that nobody had a problem with.

If we want to debate more on this perhaps we should start a new topic

The thing is, if people are being oppressed, such as the case was with slavery, unconstitutional internment of Japanese Americans, forced re-education of Native children into a white way of thinking, the majority is often the oppressor... What you seem to be arguing is that the institution of democracy shields the majority from being wrong, because the wants of the majority outweigh the wants of the minority (I'm not going to say few people, because technically the "minority" of the US would be 49% of 300 million people).

Our country was built on the idea of being free from oppression and equality for all, and to say that people's opinions aren't valid because they happen to fall in the minority is immoral. That minority can still be a substantial number of people. The democracy you're describing allows for an ignorant, racist or classist majority to continue to perpetuate a system of oppression that will ensure that it will be EXCEEDINGLY difficult for a minority to move up in life-- white, brown, red, yellow, or black.

[UltimateOreo 145]

The democracy you're describing allows for an ignorant, racist or classist majority to continue to perpetuate a system of oppression that will ensure that it will be EXCEEDINGLY difficult for a minority to move up in life-- white, brown, red, yellow, or black.

Welcome to the world we live in.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

Welcome to the world we live in.

I realize it's the world we live in, but it doesn't make it justifiable -- I'm not here to argue what the world is or is not, I'm here to argue the logic behind why it is the way it is, and to argue against the thought that we are better off like this.

[Contract Killer 24]

Nothing ever works out, nothing is ever perfect, I mean look at communism, it sounded great on paper, but didn't turn out to well, what do they call what it turned into? I think its socialism or dictorialism.

[Guest Fohacidal]

What? So your saying if every american moved into india, but were still a minority by like 49% to 51% according to you, we should have a full say in the indian government, bring over mcdonalds and christianity, and redo what the british did during the second age of imperialism?

[Madmartigan 0]

This topic started over the issue of prayer in schools...My comment as quoted was referring to the statistically small number of people who opposed it. I think it approached an 86% dissatisfaction rating. Meaning 86% of americans thought it was wrong to take it out. That is the minority I'm referring to, not a 49/51 minority. I think we should have a system to even things out if there is less than a 25, or even 20% rate of approval. Meaning if the votes are 35-65...then democracy should go a step further.

The problem with representing a small minority is that nearly everyone is part of a minority. That means everyone has a reason to complain about everything. Nothing gets accomplished that way

[berserk 1]

This topic started over the issue of prayer in schools...My comment as quoted was referring to the statistically small number of people who opposed it. I think it approached an 86% dissatisfaction rating. Meaning 86% of americans thought it was wrong to take it out. That is the minority I'm referring to, not a 49/51 minority. I think we should have a system to even things out if there is less than a 25, or even 20% rate of approval. Meaning if the votes are 35-65...then democracy should go a step further.

The problem with representing a small minority is that nearly everyone is part of a minority. That means everyone has a reason to complain about everything. Nothing gets accomplished that way

Well, I don't see a reason why prayer should be kept in school. First of all it caters to one religeon, secondly it wastes time (not that there isn't enough of that already in school) if you want to pray, pray on your own time. By the way can you please show me the statistics.

[Contract Killer 24]

Well, I don't see a reason why prayer should be kept in school. First of all it caters to one religeon, secondly it wastes time (not that there isn't enough of that already in school) if you want to pray, pray on your own time. By the way can you please show me the statistics.

And it should, this is our country, and christianity is what everyone was when we first started out, people can bitch and everything, but its true, I've never heard about praying in school, I don't believe in mixing government and religon, but when people say "Well we should take out "One nation under God", that's jsut stupid, thats the way it was made and should stay, plus most of thos people don't even mean half of what they say.

[UltimateOreo 145]

I am a firm believer of separation of Church and State, you saw how well it worked when the Church had Government control in Europe. Religion in any form shoulnd't be pushed upon children in schools, although I believe they should be able to practice freely, unless it involves pushing their religion onto others.

[Madmartigan 0]

Looking for the statistic...I did a paper on it while I was a freshman in college I think, I found it then. Until I find it again though you can dismiss that statement as I don't have something to back it up...but you can count on it that I will be looking.

Seperation of church and state began as a way to keep the government out of the churches affairs...Look that up for yourself, that should be common knowledge considering how often its brought up, but everyone thinks it is the other way around. True a government can't cater to every religion and so its obviously not practical to try and push any religion into the affairs of a government...but we are talking about a nation that was founded by christians (free masons too, however the masons were a very small hidden faction) for christians. The idea was that this country would have a primary religion...but that others would be able to PRACTICE their religions here as well. Religion, particularly christianity, has its roots everywhere in American history...It's preposterous that anyone thinks they can take it out. If you want a nation where there is no religion go form your own.

[Madmartigan 0]

I am a firm believer of separation of Church and State, you saw how well it worked when the Church had Government control in Europe. Religion in any form shoulnd't be pushed upon children in schools, although I believe they should be able to practice freely, unless it involves pushing their religion onto others.

I meant to quote this but I figured my last post was going in a different direction from what I wanted to say here.

I'm assuming you are referring to the periods between 1400 and 1700 in europe? If thats the case, the church was run by corrupt politicians who only wanted power...richeliu, Popes Alexander the 6th, Leo X, and the Clements...All were power hungry politicians. The listed popes bought their way into the church and paved the way for the division of christianity. The practice of selling indulgences, ripping people off...everything was about position and power. It was a time where christianity failed because 1) the people had NO power, and 2) governments were run as monarchies (power was absolute power, not the balance of power we have today). Comparing those times to the present times holds no ground because we have had incredible Popes recently, and we live in a democracy.

Now, I don't think religion should be pushed on anyone, I was not advocating that at all...I'm talking about the fact that children are punished for praying. That schools had to stop because of one complaining parent. We have a way of life here and it is ridiculous for people to come in and try and change things that really don't hurt them.

I'm not sure if thats coming across in a negative tone, its not supposed to so my apologies if you get that vibe.

[Guest Fohacidal]

It was a time where christianity failed because 1) the people had NO power, and 2) governments were run as monarchies (power was absolute power, not the balance of power we have today). Comparing those times to the present times holds no ground because we have had incredible Popes recently, and we live in a democracy.

This has to be the most epic thing Iv read in awhile, and to be honest I have never thought about it like that.

[Madmartigan 0]

Lol, I strive to deliver epic in everything I do. Appreciated Foh!

[Contract Killer 24]

I love how Junzou isn't replying? Are we just too good lol.

[bios 1]

Just remember, speaking the truth in a time of deceit is in itself a revolutionary act.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

I love how Junzou isn't replying? Are we just too good lol.

No, he's just taking to heart what Martigan said. These arguments go round and round, and in the end we both have views that will not change regardless of what's being said.

[bios 1]

We don't live in a pure democracy, we live in a representative democracy. The government is so fucked up. At this point we have to erase everything in the last fifty years to fix it or plain and simply start over.

[Contract Killer 24]

No, he's just taking to heart what Martigan said. These arguments go round and round, and in the end we both have views that will not change regardless of what's being said.

I was being sarcastic btw (In a none "I told you so" way), but I am surprised everything has died down.

[projectmayhem9 8]

Minorities are given more opportunities than whites nowadays...

[Contract Killer 24]

Sadly, this is true project.

[vegetavegeta 0]

Hey guyz! sup! Our government isnt a Democracy its a REPUBLIC congress anounced it in 2001 so this debate is obsolete

[projectmayhem9 8]

Hey guyz! sup! Our government isnt a Democracy its a REPUBLIC congress anounced it in 2001 so this debate is obsolete

Well dictionary.com says no to you.

2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.

[Madmartigan 0]

Hmmm...something tells me the debate was obsolete anyway.

Junzou, I enjoy debating and I didn't mean to kill this thread by my comment. I'll try hard to find something else we can fight about

[Guest Fohacidal]

Hey guyz! sup! Our government isnt a Democracy its a REPUBLIC congress anounced it in 2001 so this debate is obsolete

someone is finally back

[vegetavegeta 0]

In a Republic, elected representatives make the laws. In a "pure" Democracy there are no representatives and the people themselves vote on each issue. James Madison in the Federalist #10 in 1787 was the first to seperate the definitions of democracy and republic.Today the distinction between the two terms has been lost and most of the world defines the modern republic as a modern democracy. California and states who put for similar intiatives on their ballots are closer to pure democracy.

owned =P

Majority rule is a democracy. USA is a Republic

.

In the USA rather than vote on issues, we elect like-thinking representatives to study the topic and make informed decisions.

Additionally, States are represented in Congress in such a way that the Majority can not trod upon the minority. We have representatives based on population, but we have Senators two per State.

In a majority-rule system the most populous states would control the country...and could effectively make decisions for the smaller States.

The 10th amendment of the USA Constitution also severely limits the power of the Federal Government and grants most power to each State and the citizens.

The 10th Amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

In 2001 our congress voted and WE ARE a republic