"So"

[lamapit 0]

Here is something you should take a look at if you haven't already.

Also contains link to the entire interview.

"So" was the response of our V.P. in regards to popularity polls showing 2/3 of America say the fight in Iraq is not worth it.

IMHO he should care one helluva lot what the polls say. He is an elected official; he works for US, he is in no position to just assume what is right, he and the president were never elected to do what is "right". They are elected to properly represent the will of the people, damn it. Completely ignoring the mans past he should be tried for treason and sentenced equal to that of 4000 dead Americans(80,000+ Iraqi Civi's). He is flat out ignoring the will of the people. Stay the course, people say. What, leave and let those already killed die in vain, people say. Lets just let thousands more die to justify the dead.

[Waylon 2]

This is old news, and whats the point? I'm so sick of discussing the war and corrupt politicians because nothing will change. No matter how much we acknowledge and discuss, and protest, nothing will change because if it were to happen it would of already. Now all we can do is hope for a good sniper.

[Contract Killer 24]

Don't fret guys, Obama will fix it all. {sarcasm}

[Audiovox 6]

LOL, that's an interesting thought there Waylon. But honestly, he can say whatever he wants based off of the "popularity polls" because it is just that, a random poll that who ever chooses to participate. Therefore it doesn't hold much weight when it comes down to it. Much like our voting system for the Presidential elections eh? That's why we have the electorial college for that election though, so we know that despite all the people that don't vote, we can still get at least a sorta balanced mix of opinions. Just need to devise a system for the people for matters like the War in Iraq and what not. lol, right.

-Audio

[Madmartigan 0]

Haha, nice one contract...obama will definately fuck everything, i mean fix...And Audio is right, if it was just a random poll, who gives a shit. I personally don't think for one second that pulling out prematurely will do any good. Its like having sex, why pull out before you're ready to, you just get excited for nothing!! lol, that really had no relevance to a war, it just felt like the right thing to say. But seriously, this topic is going to get nowhere if people start talking about war...One side will argue their points, the other will argue theirs. Someone will get fed up and start talking trash, then bam, this forum will be closed.

[Contract Killer 24]

That's very true. War threads never go well....

[lamapit 0]

But seriously, this topic is going to get nowhere if people start talking about war...One side will argue their points, the other will argue theirs. Someone will get fed up and start talking trash, then bam, this forum will be closed.

But still, for every thread view it has been a reminder of the state our country is in.

_____________

This is old news, and whats the point? I'm so sick of discussing the war and corrupt politicians because nothing will change. No matter how much we acknowledge and discuss, and protest, nothing will change because if it were to happen it would of already. Now all we can do is hope for a good sniper.

<blockquote>True this stuff is old news. But when we let this all go to the wayside just dismissing it as the everyday political rhetoric, even those few who do give a damn soon won't even bat an eye. It will go the way of the war being fought Afghanistan. This wound our nation bears HAS to be reopened, never let to scab over, it must become a scar; the people in power right now have to become such a blemish to our eyes, such a stain we want gone- but REFUSE to get rid of-We can never forget how blatantly corrupt these people are. I will give that others in the past might have been just as, or ever worse; but so god damn blatant. Lies everywhere, denied up and down; DESPITE recorded contradictions to every word they speak, in transcripts and countless videos. No, simply removing them does no justice to those hundreds of thousands hurt and killed because of Cheny and Bush, Rice, Powell, and the many others I cannot name. They need to be put to trial, open to the media so the nation can see their "wonderful " leaders put to shame. They are criminals of the utmost disgust, they are the very definition of the word unpatriotic, a term used so loosely it seems.

No, to say this is old news, that such disgusting acts can be considered "old' news; Its just wrong.

And a general notice who would question my character, integrity, and love of this nation I was so luck to be born to two decades ago, to those who would call me unpatriotic for writing such "horrible" things about our leaders, I say: NO! I am the patriot, I am the one who questions authority, I am the one who will not accept the wrongs committed by our leaders.

</blockquote>

[Madmartigan 0]

But still, for every thread view it has been a reminder of the state our country is in.

_____________

<blockquote>True this stuff is old news. But when we let this all go to the wayside just dismissing it as the everyday political rhetoric, even those few who do give a damn soon won't even bat an eye. It will go the way of the war being fought Afghanistan. This wound our nation bears HAS to be reopened, never let to scab over, it must become a scar; the people in power right now have to become such a blemish to our eyes, such a stain we want gone- but REFUSE to get rid of-We can never forget how blatantly corrupt these people are. I will give that others in the past might have been just as, or ever worse; but so god damn blatant. Lies everywhere, denied up and down; DESPITE recorded contradictions to every word they speak, in transcripts and countless videos. No, simply removing them does no justice to those hundreds of thousands hurt and killed because of Cheny and Bush, Rice, Powell, and the many others I cannot name. They need to be put to trial, open to the media so the nation can see their "wonderful " leaders put to shame. They are criminals of the utmost disgust, they are the very definition of the word unpatriotic, a term used so loosely it seems.

No, to say this is old news, that such disgusting acts can be considered "old' news; Its just wrong.

And a general notice who would question my character, integrity, and love of this nation I was so luck to be born to two decades ago, to those who would call me unpatriotic for writing such "horrible" things about our leaders, I say: NO! I am the patriot, I am the one who questions authority, I am the one who will not accept the wrongs committed by our leaders.

</blockquote>

Buddy, you need to open your eyes to the attrocities elsewhere before you start trying to get nit picky about our nation. Sure, we have our problems, but in comparison to those of the rest of the world ours are nearly insignificant. How dare you suggest our leaders should be put to death. Those with wisdom see the results years from now, not just in the near future. You're suggestion that the current administration is "unpatriotic" is both misguided and unpatriotic on your part. Despite what you may have been fed by mtv and cnn, america is the most giving nation in the history of the world and what our administration has done to try and free the world from tryanny is the definition patriotism. Our country stands for freedom, and believe it or not, thats what it has been spreading. War is terrible, but it is also necessary when no other means provide results. Iraq and afghanistan both begged us to wage war with them, by killing our people, bombing our embassies and nation, and threatening the existance of the human race...In case you forgot, the vote to go to war was an outstanding yes, by liberals and conservatives alike. To suggest that bush and cheney are unpatriotic is to suggest that the rest of america is as well, including yourself. So thanks, but no thanks, you're "patriotism" is on the verge of being mutinous

[Guest Fohacidal]

Buddy, you need to open your eyes to the attrocities elsewhere before you start trying to get nit picky about our nation. Sure, we have our problems, but in comparison to those of the rest of the world ours are nearly insignificant. How dare you suggest our leaders should be put to death. Those with wisdom see the results years from now, not just in the near future. You're suggestion that the current administration is "unpatriotic" is both misguided and unpatriotic on your part. Despite what you may have been fed by mtv and cnn, america is the most giving nation in the history of the world and what our administration has done to try and free the world from tryanny is the definition patriotism. Our country stands for freedom, and believe it or not, thats what it has been spreading. War is terrible, but it is also necessary when no other means provide results. Iraq and afghanistan both begged us to wage war with them, by killing our people, bombing our embassies and nation, and threatening the existance of the human race...In case you forgot, the vote to go to war was an outstanding yes, by liberals and conservatives alike. To suggest that bush and cheney are unpatriotic is to suggest that the rest of america is as well, including yourself. So thanks, but no thanks, you're "patriotism" is on the verge of being mutinous

I love you martigan, I swear whenever a big issue comes up you post my thoughts to the word...

[Madmartigan 0]

I love you martigan, I swear whenever a big issue comes up you post my thoughts to the word...

Lol, I'm glad I can help you back up your opinions, and I'm glad you're there to back up mine. By the way, I also suggested your re-admission to UV in chronx's application page

[UltimateOreo 145]

The war in Iraq and on Terrorism is a nessecity, even if it was for the wrong reasons. Saddam was jailing, murdering, and torturing his own people. There were active terrorist cells in Iraq, and recent evidence supports that Saddam may have been aiding the cells, so even though our motives may have been flawed, I still believe we were right for the wrong reasons.

[Contract Killer 24]

True oreo, we can't just pull out and have the new saddam come in.

[w33D.Ross 2]

This is old news, and whats the point? I'm so sick of discussing the war and corrupt politicians because nothing will change. No matter how much we acknowledge and discuss, and protest, nothing will change because if it were to happen it would of already. Now all we can do is hope for a good sniper.

Vietnam

True oreo, we can't just pull out and have the new saddam come in.

and why not?

[Contract Killer 24]

Vietnam

That was fucking disgusting how the hippies treated our soldiers after they came back, don't even get me started.

[w33D.Ross 2]

the hippies ended the war.

[Contract Killer 24]

I don't care, you don't fucking disrespect soldiers.

[UltimateOreo 145]

That was fucking disgusting how the hippies treated our soldiers after they came back, don't even get me started.

You know what they remind me of? Westboro Church protesting at the gay soldiers funeral. The hippies should have been treated the same way that the Westboro members are being treated right now.

[Contract Killer 24]

Yes, we had a thread abotu disrespting a while ago lol.

[w33D.Ross 2]

Buddy, you need to open your eyes to the attrocities elsewhere before you start trying to get nit picky about our nation. Sure, we have our problems, but in comparison to those of the rest of the world ours are nearly insignificant. How dare you suggest our leaders should be put to death. Those with wisdom see the results years from now, not just in the near future. You're suggestion that the current administration is "unpatriotic" is both misguided and unpatriotic on your part. Despite what you may have been fed by mtv and cnn, america is the most giving nation in the history of the world and what our administration has done to try and free the world from tryanny is the definition patriotism. Our country stands for freedom, and believe it or not, thats what it has been spreading. War is terrible, but it is also necessary when no other means provide results. Iraq and afghanistan both begged us to wage war with them, by killing our people, bombing our embassies and nation, and threatening the existance of the human race...In case you forgot, the vote to go to war was an outstanding yes, by liberals and conservatives alike. To suggest that bush and cheney are unpatriotic is to suggest that the rest of america is as well, including yourself. So thanks, but no thanks, you're "patriotism" is on the verge of being mutinous

i cant believe i missed this post.

and before you read the rest of this, let me make this clear. I DO NOT LOVE THIS COUNTRY! if this counts as mutiny, call the authorities, im mutinous.

America is the most giving country in the world? i think not.

over 250 years of slavery, i guess we gave Africans a place to work, and enough food to live.

elimination of Native Americans, i guess we gave them their lands back, after we killed most of them.

the Internment camps of the 1940's, i guess we gave the Japanese Americans a place to live, while we keep our country safe from them.

the horrible attitude towards the Irish, i guess we gave them a place to be ridiculed, humiliated, degraded, and unemployed.

the turning around of Jewish refugees from Germany, i guess we allowed them to return to their homeland, to die

The treatment of women and children in the work place, i guess we gave them a place to work, until they ether died or couldn't work any more.

the unfair treatment of factory workers, i guess we gave them the chance to work hard for their employers.

the deportation of countless immigrants, i guess we gave them the ability to choose imprisonment or going back to the country they fled from.

the treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1800's, i guess we gave them the opportunity to be beaten, and worked to death.

the imprisonment of communist in the 1950's, i guess we allowed them to practice political freedom.

the lacklustre performance to aid a city, devastated by a hurricane, i guess we gave those people a new place to live.

a following 100 years of racial discrimination, we allowed blacks to live as separate from whites.

[Contract Killer 24]

Well, then leave! We gave England ammunition and vehicles in WWII, we've even given Mexico money for protecting their borders from SA from immigrants coming here, I don't see any other country's doing that.

[w33D.Ross 2]

Well, then leave! We gave England ammunition and vehicles in WWII, we've even given Mexico money for protecting their borders from SA from immigrants coming here, I don't see any other country's doing that.

Cuba gave aid to America during Katrina, we didn't accept.

Israel gave Brazil numerous fighters and bombers.

also, USA gave engines and scrap metal to Nazi Germany and Japan during ww2. America wanted money. its not giving if you receive something for it. thats called selling.

[Madmartigan 0]

i cant believe i missed this post.

and before you read the rest of this, let me make this clear. I DO NOT LOVE THIS COUNTRY! if this counts as mutiny, call the authorities, im mutinous.

America is the most giving country in the world? i think not.

over 250 years of slavery, i guess we gave Africans a place to work, and enough food to live.

elimination of Native Americans, i guess we gave them their lands back, after we killed most of them.

the Internment camps of the 1940's, i guess we gave the Japanese Americans a place to live, while we keep our country safe from them.

the horrible attitude towards the Irish, i guess we gave them a place to be ridiculed, humiliated, degraded, and unemployed.

the turning around of Jewish refugees from Germany, i guess we allowed them to return to their homeland, to die

The treatment of women and children in the work place, i guess we gave them a place to work, until they ether died or couldn't work any more.

the unfair treatment of factory workers, i guess we gave them the chance to work hard for their employers.

the deportation of countless immigrants, i guess we gave them the ability to choose imprisonment or going back to the country they fled from.

the treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1800's, i guess we gave them the opportunity to be beaten, and worked to death.

the imprisonment of communist in the 1950's, i guess we allowed them to practice political freedom.

the lacklustre performance to aid a city, devastated by a hurricane, i guess we gave those people a new place to live.

a following 100 years of racial discrimination, we allowed blacks to live as separate from whites.

First off, nobody said that America hasn't done its fair share of mess ups. Nobody said that a few didn't trash the good reputation of many. I will address as many of your complaints as I can

Slavery...250 years of it...I don't think anyone will deny that the institution of slavery in America was wrong, but to ignore the fact that its roots began in Africa, that slave trading was done by blacks long before it was done by whites, and to put all the blame of thousands of years of slavery on America is ridiculous. Many who colonized here were bred to accept slavery, it was so commonplace that very few worried about it. I'm not saying its right, but at least this country stepped up and put an end to it.

What we did to the native americans was messed up, but there were many tribes who attacked before the colonizers ever attacked...The original wars between native americans and the british colonizers has no one true instigator. The atrocity was in the westward expansion...that was greed, I won't defend those who stole their lands.

Interment camps of the 40's...are you kidding me?? In time of war, especially world war, you are foolish to think anyone that we are waring with would be welcome. The problem is that PC of today dictates that we bow to anyone...protecting our borders was important, read sun tzu's the art of war and you'll discover that one of the first and most vital steps to a stable nation is securing your borders. In case you forgot, it was the japanese who bombed us

The irish, and nearly every immigrant will tell you the situations faced in america were nothing compared to what they faced in their own countries. They came to america to escape death...they were willing to work wherever they could, its sad that their eagerness to work was often exploited...but what else do you give millions of newcomers to do?? Obviously those who had worked their whole lives were irate when millions entered into the workforce and took over the average americans job.

As a jew, you of all people should be aware of the anti-semitism that has gripped the world from thousands of years ago...Again, nobody said it was right, but to call out america, when nobody in their own damn continent would help them out is again, ridiculous. And by the way, the KKK and nazi sympathizers in america had a huge part in the denial of jewish refugees...at least america didn't let another 20 million jews die...

I'll add more later, but I have a huge bit of info on the hurricane situation for you before I go. I'm from baton rouge...an hour from new orleans. The people who screwed up new orleans were 1) democratic governor kathleen blanco and 2) new orleans democratic mayor ray nagin. Both refused to heed warnings from bush 3 days prior to the hurricanes landfall, there were thousands of busses ready to evacuate the city but blanco called it off. They both failed to react when the hurricane actually hit, neither had a plan for a city shaped like a bowl. They blamed the army corps of engineers for the levee's failure when everyone knows there is nothing you can do to stop nature...look at this pic and tell me who is responsible for the city flooding, the army corps or the people who lived there??

http://www.classicalvalues.com/New-Orleans-Ground-Elevs.jpg

[Waylon 2]

the hippies ended the war.

no they didn't end the war, are you shitting me? It was a 20 year war, and really wasn't a war towards the end, just chaos. Hippies did nothing but make asses out of themselves. Fuck hippies.

As for putting our leaders to death? I say torture them first. Fuck Bush, and fuck Cheney. Many of you will never know the true facts as some of us do.

Don't blame America. Blame the leaders.

[berserk 1]

Interment camps of the 40's...are you kidding me?? In time of war, especially world war, you are foolish to think anyone that we are waring with would be welcome. The problem is that PC of today dictates that we bow to anyone...protecting our borders was important, read sun tzu's the art of war and you'll discover that one of the first and most vital steps to a stable nation is securing your borders. In case you forgot, it was the japanese who bombed us

.So it is alright to put American citizens under those conditions? I'm not talking about borders I'm talking about Citizens with Japanese ancestory that were already here, that kind of treatment is unconstitutional and it's foolish to think that was not a major fuck up on our part.

[Madmartigan 0]

.So it is alright to put American citizens under those conditions? I'm not talking about borders I'm talking about Citizens with Japanese ancestory that were already here, that kind of treatment is unconstitutional and it's foolish to think that was not a major fuck up on our part.

How do you know who is willing to repeat pearl harbor and who isnt, the threat of spies was enormous in the 40's, how do you know who you can trust? It probably wasn't constitutional, but the last time I checked, there is a different set of rules for times of war and times of peace...you do what you have to to protect your people, even if it means detaining some of them. That is common sense. Again, if you think im trying to excuse America for some the problems her people have commited, you are wrong. What I was doing was refuting ross' claim that America is basically satans country...everything he stated was done so with the intent to drag peoples perceptions of this country down with his...The problem is that most of the things he stated went on during times of extenuating circumstances. Seriously, I'm not going to kill my dog and eat it 999 times out of 1000...but if im starving...if the circumstances make it seem more reasonable, I'm more liable to do it. He was ignoring the circumstances and only stating the events. Again, circumstances don't necessarily dictate that something is ok, but alot of the "atrocities" commited by america were done so during times of dramatic circumstance