Student Debt at Colleges/Universities in the US

[fatb0y 1337]

You definitely can find employment with either, that is not to say these will be high paying jobs. It's common sense, the bar--as you put it--has been raised to set a Bachelor's Degree as the new minimum, as more and more meet this standard, the bar will eventually be raised again.

This isn't necessarily true. Plenty of well paying jobs don't actually require you to have a bachelor's degree, technically. The bachelor's serves as an indication of your capability, so if you don't have a bachelor's then you need something else to compensate. Things like numerous certifications or a portfolio of personal work or even letters of recommendation from previous employers can all serve as an indication of your capabilities. The point is, you need to be able to have some sort of proof that you aren't retarded before an employer will hire you.

[PANTERA 686]

You definitely can find employment with either, that is not to say these will be high paying jobs. It's common sense, the bar--as you put it--has been raised to set a Bachelor's Degree as the new minimum, as more and more meet this standard, the bar will eventually be raised again.

This isn't necessarily true. Plenty of well paying jobs don't actually require you to have a bachelor's degree, technically. The bachelor's serves as an indication of your capability, so if you don't have a bachelor's then you need something else to compensate. Things like numerous certifications or a portfolio of personal work or even letters of recommendation from previous employers can all serve as an indication of your capabilities. The point is, you need to be able to have some sort of proof that you aren't retarded before an employer will hire you.

Definitely, all I meant to say was that as more and more people obtain that degree, and employment becomes even more competitive, a Bachelor's alone will lose it's value.

Edited May 24, 2012 by PANTERA

[fatb0y 1337]

Definitely, all I meant to say was that as more and more people obtain that degree, and employment becomes even more competitive, a Bachelor's alone will lose it's value.

I feel like the cause of this competitiveness is more so the economy, and less so everyone getting degrees.

I mean a bachelor's degree is only valuable insofar as it is necessitated in the career path you choose. i.e. Law, Medicine, Academic Research etc.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

I'd argue a masters degree is the new gold standard for corporate America. People would be lucky to sniff 50K with an undergrad and if one has any ambition to come close to 75k+ multiple graduate degrees might be required. I hate to be a douche but I don't wanna hear from people telling me they're gonna break 75K with a bachelors because:

They saw it on a website....

I have a friend who.....

My teacher said.....

Well my dad said....

[brenner 48]

Increase in demand = increase in price (for/of an undergraduate degree)

[Christmas 643]

I still think that is a problem considering the fact that a high school degree is becoming less and less valuable and a bachelors degree is becoming the new high school degree. That means that with the higher need for a college degree, the bigger problem it will be for students who don't or can't stand out like others do. I think saying "if you stand out in a major you will be fine" is oversimplifying the issue.

this is more of an economical issue, consider a business owner in a bad economy. To ensure that he is still making profits with reduced sales, he lays off a bunch of people. One day he decides he needs some extra help, he will naturally hire someone who positively stands out and disregard those who seem ordinary.

Okay, but that isn't entirely the point I'm making.

^this issue has nothing to do with a Bachelor's degree or major. Anyone who is exceptional will do just fine. Those who aren't might not. Thats the way it has always been and it hasn't changed.

But you and I both know there are certain majors which have been in low demand, and with the downturn of the economy and increase in tuition, it is a much bigger deal for a student fresh out of college to pick those majors without much understanding of what they are getting into. And those students who I was referring to aren't likely going to be those who stand out above the rest.

[PANTERA 686]

I'd argue a masters degree is the new gold standard for corporate America. People would be lucky to sniff 50K with an undergrad and if one has any ambition to come close to 75k+ multiple graduate degrees might be required. I hate to be a douche but I don't wanna hear from people telling me they're gonna break 75K with a bachelors because:

They saw it on a website....

I have a friend who.....

My teacher said.....

Well my dad said....

Pretty much what I was trying to get at but it didn't work.

[Mitch 2111]

I'd argue a masters degree is the new gold standard for corporate America. People would be lucky to sniff 50K with an undergrad and if one has any ambition to come close to 75k+ multiple graduate degrees might be required. I hate to be a douche but I don't wanna hear from people telling me they're gonna break 75K with a bachelors because:

They saw it on a website....

I have a friend who.....

My teacher said.....

Well my dad said....

Engineering.

[PANTERA 686]

Hey Mitch, don't keep downrepping me cuz you scurred you'll eventually have to get a master's, downrep me because you hate white people.

[Mitch 2111]

Hey Mitch, don't keep downrepping me cuz you scurred you'll eventually have to get a master's, downrep me because you hate white people.

I can downrep if I disagree with your post - pretty plain and simple.

I'm just too damn lazy/don't care enough to type a reply.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

I'd argue a masters degree is the new gold standard for corporate America. People would be lucky to sniff 50K with an undergrad and if one has any ambition to come close to 75k+ multiple graduate degrees might be required. I hate to be a douche but I don't wanna hear from people telling me they're gonna break 75K with a bachelors because:

They saw it on a website....

I have a friend who.....

My teacher said.....

Well my dad said....

Engineering.

Back in 2007 I hired a civilain BME for my hospital with just a bachleors for 60K a year. The only reason he made 60K was he had 12+ years of experience. If he came to me for a job with NO EXPERIENCE STRAIGHT OUT OF SCHOOL he might sniff 42K.

[Empire 30]

BME from which college?

anyway: http://chenected.aic...nitial-payback/

$65.7k per year starting salary. the survey doesn't take into account any higher education than a bachelors

and will you take a look at that, ChemEngs break 100k with a bachelors with 15 years experience

and if you think that website is biased:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/LIVING/06/06/paying.jobs.2011.grads.cb/index.html

$66.9k per year to ChemEngs

Edited May 24, 2012 by Empire

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

BME from JHU. It's a good program. I'm speaking from real world corporate experience. Not a website or "I heard from a friend." I always find it odd the people professing they can make 100K with a bachelors.....don't have 100K and in some cases a bachelors. I just hate to have people receive erroneous information which causes them to spend time and money, only to not have it pan out the way they hoped it to be.

There are so many things that don't pass the common sense test:

If a professor at your local university has a masters or maybe a doctorate and earns between 60-85K (rough estimate) and he is teaching bachelor level students who are supposed to earn 100K + ??????

If this is the case.....well.....it sounds like a sci-fi alternate universe.

I'm at work on my cell phone so I hope autocorrect didnt jack me up too much.

Edited May 24, 2012 by ChosenOne2000

[Moose 4890]

You can always go to private universities. I go to BYU, ranked fairly high, and between a few thousand in financial aid and scholarships, I'm only paying my housing and other expenses. Much more grateful to have that than be some of my friends paying 10's of thousands each year. Grad school is going to be bad enough for me.

[Empire 30]

If a professor at your local university has a masters or maybe a doctorate and earns between 60-85K (rough estimate) and he is teaching bachelor level students who are supposed to earn 100K + ??????

If this is the case.....well.....it sounds like a sci-fi alternate universe.

people stay in academia because of what it offers. You get to teach students, live a relatively stationary "non-stressful" life, and stay at the tip of your field by doing research funded by your university. The pay is obviously less than the industrial market, but both situations offer different experiences.

Anyway, I'm fairly confident in those numbers I posted earlier, they may be a bit optimistic (5-10k), but not by much. Many of the 'good' seniors who I had classes with this year are earning in that range. Again, most are going into masters or PhD programs so the sample size isn't that large.

@ Moose, if you got financial aid and scholarships from BYU, you should be able to do the same for Masters or PhD. Many colleges will pay 50-100% of your tutition for masters if you do some TA/Research work. PhD programs will usually pay for everything including your room/board and a small stipend.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

I agree with about 75% with what Empire stated. However very few academic scholarships offer 100% coverage. Going to school for free is usually the exception, not the rule. The other civilain psychologists and social workers I work with utilized financial aids and grants to fund their education either in part or whole.

For my colleagues who have at least one masters funded by financial aid, their average debt is 65K. They're in a position now where making the payments aren't too much of a burden. My colleagues with a doctorate average between 80-105K in financial aid debt.

What people don't know or what people don't tell you about financial aid is you get a grace period before you have to start making payments (usually 3-12 months after graduation). After that grace period, the loan company will be expecting regular payments from their usually high interest loans. New graduates are now under pressure to find ANY job, it may not be their dream job, but they need to earn an income.

Somehow people are under the illusion they should get free college money for just being them. There is always a catch. It may not manifest right away, but ultimately the financial aid people are going to get way more back than what they gave you.

My case is slightly different and I didn't go to big name schools. I didnt pay out of pocket but I've seen the money the government gave to my universities.

Undgrad: 27K yes it was really cheap and keep in mind this was 2000-2004

Grad #1: 8K half my credits came from military training

Grad #2: 55K FSU isn't a named school but it's part of the UNC network, hence the cost

Doctorate: 60K ish I didn't see the cost for the last semester but I'm estimating based on the previous semesters.

This debt would probably kill me for the next 20+ years if I had a traditional financial aid compensation package.

Edited May 24, 2012 by ChosenOne2000

[PANTERA 686]

^I'm likely going to join ROTC in college to help with my tuition, most likely Navy, though I'm beginning to hear more and more about the benefits of going Air-force.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

^I'm likely going to join ROTC in college to help with my tuition, most likely Navy, though I'm beginning to hear more and more about the benefits of going Air-force.

There was no way I could have earned my degrees debt free without the military. All services have the same benefits, it's just a manor of lifestyle. I received my ROTC scholarship my senior year of high school (2000) for the Army. Ultaponch is currently competing for an Air Force scholarship an is currently going through training and evaluation at an Air Force base in Louisana. Fohicidal recently passed his department of defense language exam and is an arabic linguist and will have his undergrad paid for at the conclusion of his training.

There are several people in the clan WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE in receiving a fully funded education.

I had a link on the old forums to a department of defense initiative which pays off their financial aid in exchange for 3-4 years of employment. I believe it is an execellent alternative to joining the military to fund your education. See link below:

http://www.opm.gov/oca/pay/studentloan/html/report.asp

Edited May 24, 2012 by ChosenOne2000

[Mitch 2111]

I'd argue a masters degree is the new gold standard for corporate America. People would be lucky to sniff 50K with an undergrad and if one has any ambition to come close to 75k+ multiple graduate degrees might be required. I hate to be a douche but I don't wanna hear from people telling me they're gonna break 75K with a bachelors because:

They saw it on a website....

I have a friend who.....

My teacher said.....

Well my dad said....

Engineering.

Back in 2007 I hired a civilain BME for my hospital with just a bachleors for 60K a year. The only reason he made 60K was he had 12+ years of experience. If he came to me for a job with NO EXPERIENCE STRAIGHT OUT OF SCHOOL he might sniff 42K.

Most BMEs from my university that I know personally have found jobs that pay them 85k+ after they graduate. These are people I know firsthand. I don't know any senior in the engineering program at my school that hasn't gotten an offer for a job that paid at least 75k a year, only with a bachelors in engineering.

@Pantera: I think I could do well off in life and never have to get a masters. I am managing well enough on my income right now and think I'll be fine if I just have a bachelors and just deal with the income it brings me.

My current university is paying for all of my tuition as of right now. The only thing I have to pay is for books, school supplies and rent/general living costs.

[PANTERA 686]

I'd argue a masters degree is the new gold standard for corporate America. People would be lucky to sniff 50K with an undergrad and if one has any ambition to come close to 75k+ multiple graduate degrees might be required. I hate to be a douche but I don't wanna hear from people telling me they're gonna break 75K with a bachelors because:

They saw it on a website....

I have a friend who.....

My teacher said.....

Well my dad said....

Engineering.

Back in 2007 I hired a civilain BME for my hospital with just a bachleors for 60K a year. The only reason he made 60K was he had 12+ years of experience. If he came to me for a job with NO EXPERIENCE STRAIGHT OUT OF SCHOOL he might sniff 42K.

Most BMEs from my university that I know personally have found jobs that pay them 85k+ after they graduate. These are people I know firsthand. I don't know any senior in the engineering program at my school that hasn't gotten an offer for a job that paid at least 75k a year, only with a bachelors in engineering.

@Pantera: I think I could do well off in life and never have to get a masters. I am managing well enough on my income right now and think I'll be fine if I just have a bachelors and just deal with the income it brings me.

My current university is paying for all of my tuition as of right now. The only thing I have to pay is for books, school supplies and rent/general living costs.

What is true now does not necessarily hold true in the future, say for instance you start a family, current economic trends continue, etc. All I'm saying is that in general, an individual is obviously better off with a Master's or higher, and that in time the norm of education will likely be such, due simply to saturation of qualifications in certain fields and the amount of competition that is paired with this.

[Mitch 2111]

I'd argue a masters degree is the new gold standard for corporate America. People would be lucky to sniff 50K with an undergrad and if one has any ambition to come close to 75k+ multiple graduate degrees might be required. I hate to be a douche but I don't wanna hear from people telling me they're gonna break 75K with a bachelors because:

They saw it on a website....

I have a friend who.....

My teacher said.....

Well my dad said....

Engineering.

Back in 2007 I hired a civilain BME for my hospital with just a bachleors for 60K a year. The only reason he made 60K was he had 12+ years of experience. If he came to me for a job with NO EXPERIENCE STRAIGHT OUT OF SCHOOL he might sniff 42K.

Most BMEs from my university that I know personally have found jobs that pay them 85k+ after they graduate. These are people I know firsthand. I don't know any senior in the engineering program at my school that hasn't gotten an offer for a job that paid at least 75k a year, only with a bachelors in engineering.

@Pantera: I think I could do well off in life and never have to get a masters. I am managing well enough on my income right now and think I'll be fine if I just have a bachelors and just deal with the income it brings me.

My current university is paying for all of my tuition as of right now. The only thing I have to pay is for books, school supplies and rent/general living costs.

What is true now does not necessarily hold true in the future, say for instance you start a family, current economic trends continue, etc. All I'm saying is that in general, an individual is obviously better off with a Master's or higher, and that in time the norm of education will likely be such, due simply to saturation of qualifications in certain fields and the amount of competition that is paired with this.

You don't account for the amount of money it takes to get those degrees, if I were to go get a bachelors and masters, it would take me about 6 to 7 years, where I don't make money and go into student loans. Getting a degree means better opportunities for jobs in comparison to those who don't have degrees and they have more money making potential throughout their whole lives but it is a gamble and a risk - not a guarantee. There are plenty of people who had degrees and are qualified for high paying jobs but can't get one. Then I look at myself who doesn't have a degree right now, but in comparison I'm not in student loan debt at all but I'm making more money then my degree holding counterparts. There are plenty of benefits to holding a degree but it's more of a gamble. High school degrees and bachelors are worth more than you think.

[PANTERA 686]

I'd argue a masters degree is the new gold standard for corporate America. People would be lucky to sniff 50K with an undergrad and if one has any ambition to come close to 75k+ multiple graduate degrees might be required. I hate to be a douche but I don't wanna hear from people telling me they're gonna break 75K with a bachelors because:

They saw it on a website....

I have a friend who.....

My teacher said.....

Well my dad said....

Engineering.

Back in 2007 I hired a civilain BME for my hospital with just a bachleors for 60K a year. The only reason he made 60K was he had 12+ years of experience. If he came to me for a job with NO EXPERIENCE STRAIGHT OUT OF SCHOOL he might sniff 42K.

Most BMEs from my university that I know personally have found jobs that pay them 85k+ after they graduate. These are people I know firsthand. I don't know any senior in the engineering program at my school that hasn't gotten an offer for a job that paid at least 75k a year, only with a bachelors in engineering.

@Pantera: I think I could do well off in life and never have to get a masters. I am managing well enough on my income right now and think I'll be fine if I just have a bachelors and just deal with the income it brings me.

My current university is paying for all of my tuition as of right now. The only thing I have to pay is for books, school supplies and rent/general living costs.

What is true now does not necessarily hold true in the future, say for instance you start a family, current economic trends continue, etc. All I'm saying is that in general, an individual is obviously better off with a Master's or higher, and that in time the norm of education will likely be such, due simply to saturation of qualifications in certain fields and the amount of competition that is paired with this.

You don't account for the amount of money it takes to get those degrees, if I were to go get a bachelors and masters, it would take me about 6 to 7 years, where I don't make money and go into student loans. Getting a degree means better opportunities for jobs in comparison to those who don't have degrees and they have more money making potential throughout their whole lives but it is a gamble and a risk - not a guarantee. There are plenty of people who had degrees and are qualified for high paying jobs but can't get one. Then I look at myself who doesn't have a degree right now, but in comparison I'm not in student loan debt at all but I'm making more money then my degree holding counterparts. There are plenty of benefits to holding a degree but it's more of a gamble. High school degrees and bachelors are worth more than you think.

Higher education is a gamble in itself, if you didn't get a full-ride, congrats btw, you have already dug a hole that will take you a decade to climb out of financially. In the long run, and this is pretty much common sense, you can do a lot more and be much more marketable with a Master's. It really boils down to which field(s) you obtained a degree in.

Edited May 24, 2012 by PANTERA

[Archy 422]

It really boils down to which field(s) you obtained a degree in.

Astrophysics!!! Awwyeahh

Probably one of the most useless majors for society, but no fucks given.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

It really boils down to which field(s) you obtained a degree in.

Astrophysics!!! Awwyeahh

Probably one of the most useless majors for society, but no fucks given.

I met one at Army missile and space command. They worked on outer space GPS's and satellites and projecting nuclear blasts from high orbit. I think the most worthless is an undergrad in philosophy or as its commonly known among employers "Getting a BS in BS"

[Archy 422]

It really boils down to which field(s) you obtained a degree in.

Astrophysics!!! Awwyeahh

Probably one of the most useless majors for society, but no fucks given.

I met one at Army missile and space command. They worked on outer space GPS's and satellites and projecting nuclear blasts from high orbit. I think the most worthless is an undergrad in philosophy or as its commonly known among employers "Getting a BS in BS"

I know that this major is decent for the Military but other than that there aren't many jobs for it, unless you get lucky and work for NASA or Lockheed Martin or something.