Changeling Additions

[Moose 4890]

Sounds effective to me.

Well yeah it's effective. But I take the risk of dieing every round. Lots of times without getting a kill at all. other times I get one chance to hit someone in the head before I'm dead.

[Mitsukai 0]

It'd be funny if the nade got transported with the changeling, but the victim's nade doesn't move.

Be kind of cool if the ultimate was more like throw grenade at ground while ultimate is in effect, the nade transports to a location where an enemy is and... BOOM! That would be a pretty cool ultimate (annoying but awesome).

[Noire 17]

I dont see why you guys dont complain about rogue. It gives you no notice, and they come up and back stab you dealing more dmg than a single nade....

[Battle-Bug 0]

I dont see why you guys dont complain about rogue. It gives you no notice, and they come up and back stab you dealing more dmg than a single nade....

We'll save that for another time. Changeling is more annoying at the moment.

btw, the risk of dying is what we all have every round. Claiming that an ultimate is difficult because you have a chance of dying isn't saying anything, especially when the mortality rate of your victim is so high.

[Mitsukai 0]

Rogue is fine, because sometimes you spawn in front of someone (due to em moving so much). Plus, you can tell if one's behind ya if you get nudged a bit, just gotta hope you survive. I think it's best to stay to kill stupid ass campers.

[Moose 4890]

See but one of your main reasons for changing the race is so taht there would be a risk that would come with it. There's your risk, I've never seen a changeling have to change races due to 4:1... Anyways... How in the hell is this any different than rogue by what you said mituskai? 90% of the time as changling you change in front of the whole team.. You're surrounded by 5-8 other people. So you get off one headshot. Then you have 6 other guys shooting at you and you're dead. fair imo.

[Noire 17]

I swear its just people who cant access the race that complain so much....

Just like Grayman.....

Why don't we see this with rogue? It's on page two...

[Battle-Bug 0]

90% of the time as changling you change in front of the whole team.. You're surrounded by 5-8 other people. So you get off one headshot. Then you have 6 other guys shooting at you and you're dead. fair imo.

A smart changeling waits until people split up.

btw, since there is no warning for the team, the changeling can change unnoticed. I've done a lot of spectating.

The problem with your scenario is that you assume 1 kill for the changeling. He took the risk and made a suicide run and made a kill. That sounds fair, but you don't mention the victim. He was switched into the middle of the enemy team while they were expecting him because the changeling set up a trap. He died. Thus, the changeling got 2 enemies killed.

I swear its just people who cant access the race that complain so much....

Just like Grayman.....

Why don't we see this with rogue? It's on page two...

Sounds like you have no more points on which to argue.

Personally, I don't care if I can access a race or not. I don't use two-thirds of the races anyways because I don't believe them to either be unfair or to be my style.

[Mitsukai 0]

Moose, same thing can be said for Rogue but the thing is, it's different because it goes one vs one and it's a fucking knife race. Rogue also has a bad chance of the enemy team (not the victim) noticing him spawn inside (around) the victim. Which can end up in the Rogue dieing quite quickly and as I said before, the victim can easily take notice of a nudge from the Rogue spawning and side step and shoot the Rogue down, or the Rogue spawns in front of the victim and usually will end up dieing because of it. The only time people complain about Rogue is when they're playing a race like Forbidden and get stabbed in the air for instance-which is funny-or it's the first time seeing the race.

Changeling gives your team a free kill usually, as well as being able to move in on the other team unnoticed-if played right. It's pretty much what Battle Bug mentioned. Really, I don't like changeling being played when it's 8 v 8. I don't really mind it being played 10+ v 10+. Anyways, the victim should get a better warning... One that shows up in the middle of their screen.

[Moose 4890]

Like I said, I agree with notifying the victim. But putting out lights when someone is being changed.. that's like putting fat signs next to the person say "HEY LOOK I'M GOING TO BE AN ENEMY IN 3 SECONDS"-and I know that this is pretty much what the ultimate does for the users team but it is HIS ultimate.. It's not meant to benifit the other team- Pretty sure that would nerf the race a little to much- if it needs to be nerfed at all. I get better ratio with rogue than changeling so that's my whole point on rogue.

[Pebbz. 953]

You keep talking about how it's not fair to the victim... I use changeling quite often just cause I get bored.. 90% of the time I take out maybe 1-2 people and end up dead. Sometimes I die before I get anyone. That obviously shows people see me and shoot me. The ultimate is just annoying, not op. A sign for the victim would be nice. Maybe give you some time to pull a nade and hit the people who kill you. or nade the changeling back when he switches and throws the nade under himself. I've had that happen quite often It sucks haha.

It's not really 'OP'. It's just that any ultimate that causes the victim to die from 2-5+ enemies is plain dumb.

I dont see why you guys dont complain about rogue. It gives you no notice, and they come up and back stab you dealing more dmg than a single nade....

I don't really agree with any instant teleportation skill. That's including Rogue's ultimate, but Backstab doesn't always kill the victim. Teleportation may mess up, the victim has enough health, etc.

[cookies 0]

eh, the only thing that bothers me is that it isnt random enough. When I get "locked on to" by a changeling on the other team, I end up being the first one switched every round until I leave the server. It's literally so frustrating that I will leave the server over it. 30 sec into every round bam I'm dead. Not much fun to me. I've tried the nade thing to switch me back but you get destroyed by the awaiting team so fast there isnt time. The only fun thing to me is getting on orc and holding a nade while i die to kill the enemy players all over him. Undead works "ok" in this scenario as well.

All in all, I can think of 10 other races I would bitch about before changling...

[Pan 0]

Either give the victim a bigger notice or leave Changeling alone.

There are planty of races that need some sort of fix, whether it be a change in code or a change in rules. Grayman and Husrkar come to mind.

Changeling is annoying , and it's entirely gay when it happens but Grayman can rape a whole team, Huskar can rape a whole team. Changeling, can in the right hands, but any race can be good in the right hands.

I heard Noire used to rape with Human Alliance a while back, are we gonna nerf that? Lurker against the right people and I can rape, we gonna nerf that? Brittney with Crypt, Subz with Alucard, I'm sure you get the point.

[Mitsukai 0]

Either give the victim a bigger notice or leave Changeling alone.

There are planty of races that need some sort of fix, whether it be a change in code or a change in rules. Grayman and Husrkar come to mind.

Changeling is annoying , and it's entirely gay when it happens but Grayman can rape a whole team, Huskar can rape a whole team. Changeling, can in the right hands, but any race can be good in the right hands.

I heard Noire used to rape with Human Alliance a while back, are we gonna nerf that? Lurker against the right people and I can rape, we gonna nerf that? Brittney with Crypt, Subz with Alucard, I'm sure you get the point.

The four original races are balanced, no need to mess with them. The Frozen Throne races (Crypt Lord for example) are also pretty balanced. Hell, I can rape with Human, too. It ain't hard. It just depends on the player.

I have never seen a Huskar take out a whole team... He's easy kill verse anyone that knows how to play/shoot. Grayman on the other hand... Depends mostly on how much damage it has taken through the round (otherwise yes it can rape a whole team easily).

All changeling needs is a fix on the victim's message or something. That's all it needs (despite it's ultimate being hella lame).

[Noire 17]

Sounds like you have no more points on which to argue.

Personally, I don't care if I can access a race or not. I don't use two-thirds of the races anyways because I don't believe them to either be unfair or to be my style.

So you never use: Huskar, Human Alliance, undead (or ghoul w/e its called now), crypt lord, dunpeal, alucard, white mage, death knight, blood mage, elementalist, Bulbasaur, Forbidden, or Succusbus Hunter?

Because all those races in my opinion are stronger than ghostly changling. Changling is an annoyance, I admit to that. That was kind of the intention of the race (aside from being able to mole at any time). A lot of these races are annoying, or op. How do you go against someone who is dunpeal and raping your team? Changling is one way. You have the CHANCE to teleport that person who is stacking the teams one way to a spot that you team can take them out. This leaves the rest of the round's gameplay more fair (ive had my ratio cut down before my 4-1 plenty of times because of ghostly).

Aside from the people who I guess it glitches and keeps trading spots with them over and over, how often does one person get switched? Every 10 rounds or so? thats like 3 times a map. Are you really saying it effects someone's gameplay that much if they die 3 times a map?

My point that I made saying that people who can't play the race bitch, is I'm saying those people are more likely jealous they cant do the same thing. Once they get high enough to use the race, you think the people bitching at going to say, hey I have too much fun on this race. Let's nerf it. No, they will see why its ok the way it is right now.

People need to get experience playing a race before they can be the experts on it to know what to nerf.

[Battle-Bug 0]

So you never use: Huskar, Human Alliance, undead (or ghoul w/e its called now), crypt lord, dunpeal, alucard, white mage, death knight, blood mage, elementalist, Bulbasaur, Forbidden, or Succusbus Hunter?

I use about half of those, but I usually handicap myself in one way or another... no colt/ak/deagle for me.

Because all those races in my opinion are stronger than ghostly changling.

There is a difference between a strong race and a race that you are defenseless against, no matter who you are.

A lot of these races are annoying, or op. How do you go against someone who is dunpeal and raping your team? Changling is one way. You have the CHANCE to teleport that person who is stacking the teams one way to a spot that you team can take them out. This leaves the rest of the round's gameplay more fair.

You assume that people can use the race responsibly. People will do whatever they can to rape and it's our responsibility to make everything as balanced as possible. When's the last time you heard someone say "oh, our team has the advantage, so I won't use a rape race?" I'm the only one I know of who does that.

Aside from the people who I guess it glitches and keeps trading spots with them over and over, how often does one person get switched? Every 10 rounds or so? thats like 3 times a map. Are you really saying it effects someone's gameplay that much if they die 3 times a map?

People rage all the time over less.

My point that I made saying that people who can't play the race bitch, is I'm saying those people are more likely jealous they cant do the same thing. Once they get high enough to use the race, you think the people bitching at going to say, hey I have too much fun on this race. Let's nerf it. No, they will see why its ok the way it is right now.

This is just plain insulting. Even if I had the race unlocked, I wouldn't use it. It's not my style. Believe me. I have over 1000 levels on server 1 and I've never used races like kj.

Also, I'm not talking about nerfing the race. The term "nerf" implies that I want to reduce the race's abilities. I merely want to add to them.

btw, what's the deal with the victim dropping the nade? I dropped a crit nade earlier and it only did 6dmg to the changeling.

Last, I do think we need to change the cool down time to 120 seconds. This allows the changeling to use the skill twice a round. I believe that the current cool down is 30 seconds. This allows the changeling to have up to 5 victims per round. (that's way too much)

[Mitsukai 0]

My point that I made saying that people who can't play the race bitch, is I'm saying those people are more likely jealous they cant do the same thing. Once they get high enough to use the race, you think the people bitching at going to say, hey I have too much fun on this race. Let's nerf it. No, they will see why its ok the way it is right now.

People need to get experience playing a race before they can be the experts on it to know what to nerf.

That's very arrogant of you to say... I have maxed the race, I can tell you it needs to be fixed. It's not hard to observe a race and tell you that it's OP. No, I'm not saying that changeling is OP or anything, I'm saying that the ultimate needs to be fixed a bit, for instance; what Battle Bug just said in his post above, cool down changed and/or give the victim a better warning.

[Pebbz. 953]

How do you go against someone who is dunpeal and raping your team? Changling is one way. You have the CHANCE to teleport that person who is stacking the teams one way to a spot that you team can take them out. This leaves the rest of the round's gameplay more fair (ive had my ratio cut down before my 4-1 plenty of times because of ghostly).

So you have a CHANCE to counter someone. So no, changeling is not a suitable counter for ANYTHING. WCS2 doesn't really deal with 'counter races', anyways.

My point that I made saying that people who can't play the race bitch, is I'm saying those people are more likely jealous they cant do the same thing. Once they get high enough to use the race, you think the people bitching at going to say, hey I have too much fun on this race. Let's nerf it. No, they will see why its ok the way it is right now.

That thinking is pretty flawed. Even if I had access to Changeling, I would NOT play it. The play style does not suit me. The race revolves around the terrible mechanic of instant teleportation.

People need to get experience playing a race before they can be the experts on it to know what to nerf.

No.

[Noire 17]

How about we nerf fix over half of the other races before we worry about this race not giving enough warning. I mean I barely die from ghostly in each map due to changing. It's not that big of a deal. I dont see why you guys cry over it so much. When I get rogue'd I dont go bitching saying how unfair it is that he came up behind me and knifed me instanstly. Just like I dont bitch when I die from being changed. Sure I can get out of rogue's knife, but sometimes Ill actually kill the people waiting for changling and instead of dying I get 3 kills or so out of it.

It's doesnt make you helpless. There a lot of things you can do. One thing I learned to do is rush super fast so when people are staring at the changling, you can end up taking a good deal of them out even if you are the one being switched (ive ran in killed 3 ppl waiting for the change then ended up changing afterwards).

It's all about how you play the game. You can sit and bitch and say it doesnt give enough warning, but what the fuck is the warning going to do? It's not goign to stop you from being changed into enemy territory. You are still going to be changed. That's what everyone is complaining about. You get changed and you cant do anything. WTF is giving you a better warning going to do? It's not like if you see it there is something you can do about it besides throw a nade down, but most ppl will run past the mark they were changed and end up missing (thats probably why your nade only did 6 dmg, you probably threw it too far from wher eyou were changed).

The only valid change said in this thread was making the cooldown longer. That I can agree with. I believed I had made the CL 45 secs originally. I know the first time you activate it, you dont have to wait for the full cooldown (dont know how to change that).

Honestly though the changes you guy brought up, light flashing, shit like that. It's not going to change the fact you get switched and people will be waiting for you. This is what people complain about.

If you guys wanted to prevent people from jumping off places to suicide others, change the time it takes to switch someone from 3 seconds to 10 seconds. No one can make a jump and not land within 10 seconds. Plus if anything this gives more time to tell people that you are being changed.

It's not arrogant of me to say what I said earlier. You guys just fucking bitch TOO much. I mean this race has been on the server for months now and no one really had a problem with it. When it seems like people complain about races they dont use/level it kind of makes their opinion a little bias. I admit when it comes to changling I'm a little bias, but I honestly think you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's not that big of a deal, it doesnt need to be changed, there are plenty of other races you guys can bitch about to make the races more balanced. Just because something annoys you, you want to try to get rid of it. Other people enjoy playing the race more than you hate it, so I think it should stay.

[Pebbz. 953]

How about we nerf fix over half of the other races before we worry about this race not giving enough warning. I mean I barely die from ghostly in each map due to changing. It's not that big of a deal. I dont see why you guys cry over it so much. When I get rogue'd I dont go bitching saying how unfair it is that he came up behind me and knifed me instanstly. Just like I dont bitch when I die from being changed. Sure I can get out of rogue's knife,

I don't want it to 'give' more warning. I'd rather have the ultimate changed.

but sometimes Ill actually kill the people waiting for changling and instead of dying I get 3 kills or so out of it.

I have too, but most of the times, you just die.

It's doesnt make you helpless. There a lot of things you can do. One thing I learned to do is rush super fast so when people are staring at the changling, you can end up taking a good deal of them out even if you are the one being switched (ive ran in killed 3 ppl waiting for the change then ended up changing afterwards).

The scenario of that happening is negligible. And when you do get teleported, yes, you are helpless. You are GUARANTEED to die.

It's not arrogant of me to say what I said earlier. You guys just fucking bitch TOO much. I mean this race has been on the server for months now and no one really had a problem with it. When it seems like people complain about races they dont use/level it kind of makes their opinion a little bias. I admit when it comes to changling I'm a little bias, but I honestly think you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's not that big of a deal, it doesnt need to be changed, there are plenty of other races you guys can bitch about to make the races more balanced.

Sounds like you can't take some criticism about your own race. Instead of taking the complaints face value, you just tell others to stop 'QQing'. Once again, any instant teleportation ultimate is dumb. This, along with others, is why I don't play WCS2 as much as before.

[Mitsukai 0]

It's all about how you play the game. You can sit and bitch and say it doesnt give enough warning, but what the fuck is the warning going to do? It's not goign to stop you from being changed into enemy territory. You are still going to be changed. That's what everyone is complaining about. You get changed and you cant do anything. WTF is giving you a better warning going to do? It's not like if you see it there is something you can do about it besides throw a nade down, but most ppl will run past the mark they were changed and end up missing (thats probably why your nade only did 6 dmg, you probably threw it too far from wher eyou were changed).

If I know I'm being changed I can start off by long jumping or easily jumping up, depending on how they have me turned it gives me a bit of a chance. It also gives the victim a chance to throw down a nade or be able to warn his team better.

[Moose 4890]

I agree with fixing other races before worrying about this. Honestly if anything the victim needs a notice then it should be HIS job to notify his teamates. That wouldn't take much but there are so many more races people complain about other than this and I personally think this post has blown it into a way bigger deal. So out of 20 rounds if there's 12 on 12 you get changed maybe 2-4 times. Is that really that bad compared to dieing 15 times from someone whoring a race?

[Mitsukai 0]

Moose... What are the other races that need to be fixed? I have a good idea of a few but I wanna see what you think.

[KnifeMaster No Sound 74]

Is it possible to code it so that the time it takes to change is a random number between 3 and 10 with the number not being given to the changeling in the text with who he is changing with? Maybe that would make it more fair for the one being changed when people start shooting after 2 seconds. Besides that I usually throw smokes on around the base on italy and then change somewhere in the smokes just to see how my team handles it xD.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

I agree with fixing other races before worrying about this. Honestly if anything the victim needs a notice then it should be HIS job to notify his teamates. That wouldn't take much but there are so many more races people complain about other than this and I personally think this post has blown it into a way bigger deal. So out of 20 rounds if there's 12 on 12 you get changed maybe 2-4 times. Is that really that bad compared to dieing 15 times from someone whoring a race?

I agree. You have 3 seconds! If you get moled say something! Scream into the mic or talk gibberish. The person who was changed just failed his whole team and is looking for a scapegoat.