Same Sex Relationships

[GodzillA 0]

That is possibly one of the worst interpretations of the Constitution I have seen recently.

It means freedom of Religion, not marriage. As in you can choose how and what to worship, not a right for a religion to do what it likes.

I would highly disagree with your assertion that it was a bad interpretation of the Constitution.

Addressing your second paragraph, you are 100% correct I can choose how and what I worship; but as it is, government is recognizing (and not recognizing) unions between two people (that have clear impacts on their lives within this country that are out of their hands) based on the definition of marriage that most classic Abrahamic religions have developed. I cannot speak for the gay community, vegata, or anyone else in this thread. But the rights I would like to see given to gays are completely outside of the bounds of religion. It is not my goal to impose that marriage between to gays or two lesbians be sanctioned by The Church, it is however my job to afford the same rights bestowed by the government to a married straight couple to those of a married gay/lesbian couple.

[Guest Fohacidal]

Do you have nothing to say? You and Foh (no offence to you Foh I'm cool with you now) never say anything worth while you don't address the points ever.

The thing is you put way to much copy pasta, a lot of the quotes are either redundant, not circumstantial to the point your trying to make or just plain irrelevant. You dont make a point, you just throw a whole bunch of words from other people's mouths and pretend that we know everything from your viewpoint now.

Fact of the matter is (and Zeus is right here) the constitution grants freedom to practice religion and freedom from organized religion. To allows same-sex couples the right to marriage and earn the same marital rights as straight couples is infringing on our tradition, which has always remained a straight one (sexually speaking). No offense to you creative, I think your cool and all but it just pisses me off some of the things a lot of the more "public" homosexuals do (gays and lesbians). Gay pride parades, gay pride websites, gay religious christian sects (yes they exist), a gay flag even the desire to mimic the traditional husband and wife role by not only receiving the title of married but also being entitled to the same marital rights as said straight couple. To me its insulting, in the future I can be happily married to my wife, in this case Ill call her Jane. Jane and I are the perfect stereotypical middle-class white married couple, 2 and a half children in a suburban house. Next door we have Joe and John, also married, 2 kids and entitled to the same rights and legal policies as my wife and I.

Now creative I dont mind you finding a nice guy, hooking up with him and living the rest of your days happily ever after with whatever kind of kid youll adopt, but when other gays go as far as to protest to get something that never belonged to them Im just gobsmacked.

Now I wouldnt mind a sort of "legal union" between the two that would at least let them adopt a kid and such but to go as far as calling it a marriage and putting it on level with straight couples, nu uh, wont fly with me

[Bob 38]

Bob attempting to break the tension ^^

apparently it didnt work

[Beefwipe 11]

The thing is you put way to much copy pasta, a lot of the quotes are either redundant, not circumstantial to the point your trying to make or just plain irrelevant. You dont make a point, you just throw a whole bunch of words from other people's mouths and pretend that we know everything from your viewpoint now.

And you make rambling walls of text

[Guest Fohacidal]

i ok with gay marriage as long as both chicks are hot.

This is the kind of ignorance I was talking about, whether it was in jest or not keep it out of the topic please...

It is not my goal to impose that marriage between to gays or two lesbians be sanctioned by The Church

What are you implying with the trademark?

[Guest Fohacidal]

And you make rambling walls of text

The point I was trying to make is what I type is coming out of my mouth...

[vegetavegeta 0]

What are you implying with the trademark?

Hes implying that the church takes in billions of tax free dollars a year and lines its pockets with your money and gives very little back.

[Guest Fohacidal]

Hes implying that the church takes in billions of tax free dollars a year and lines its pockets with your money and gives very little back.

Iv never actually payed the church a dime in my entire life, and any money my parents payed was just at church so the priest has something to live off of, its a donation.

If anything the "church" of scientology is the guiltiest of corruption.

[Mimic 3307]

If anything the "church" of scientology is the guiltiest of corruption.

First of all, you are being completely biased while saying this.

You know nothing of the Church of Scientology and most likely never will. I am not protecting the Church of Scientology either. I am an Atheist.

They could say the same thing about you, but they would most likely know more (because Christianity is a much larger religion and has been around for hundreds of years, meaning they could have easily been born into a Christian family) about your religion and thus would be much less biased than you in their opinions toward your religion.

... Assuming your Christian, Due to your previous, and retarded comments.

______________

On topic:

I believe "gay" marriages should be legal, but not done in a "religious" fashion, and SHOULD share the same RIGHTS as any normal married couple, seeing as everyone who is a "United States Citizen" should share equal rights.

[projectmayhem9 8]

First of all, you are being completely biased while saying this.

You know nothing of the Church of Scientology and most likely never will. I am not protecting the Church of Scientology either. I am an Atheist.

They could say the same thing about you, but they would most likely know more (because Christianity is a much larger religion and has been around for hundreds of years, meaning they could have easily been born into a Christian family) about your religion and thus would be much less biased than you in their opinions toward your religion.

... Assuming your Christian, Due to your previous, and retarded comments.

______________

On topic:

I believe "gay" marriages should be legal, but not done in a "religious" fashion, and SHOULD share the same RIGHTS as any normal married couple, seeing as everyone who is a "United States Citizen" should share equal rights.

It's basically been proven that CoS is a money leech. Or at least a religion with members that aren't exactly dedicated to helping others.

Read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_sci...ogy#Controversy

[Guest Fohacidal]

First of all, you are being completely biased while saying this.

You know nothing of the Church of Scientology and most likely never will. I am not protecting the Church of Scientology either. I am an Atheist.

They could say the same thing about you, but they would most likely know more (because Christianity is a much larger religion and has been around for hundreds of years, meaning they could have easily been born into a Christian family) about your religion and thus would be much less biased than you in their opinions toward your religion.

... Assuming your Christian, Due to your previous, and retarded comments.

Im not biased, your just ignorant.

And there is a difference between being a MARRIED COUPLE and a US CITIZEN.

[HoboInArmy 7]

I have no problem with gay marrage or gays. As long as they dont try to push it onto me or act like a fucking sterotype. I want my kid to be straight but its just because I want him to be like me .

Also I agree with contract. Gay Pride parades are stuiped. We dont have parades and pushing it like that make some people dislike it more.

[Guest some fag]

Creative, you're blowing this all out of proportion and denying the facts of history. After skimming that long ass post of quotes, I only found one that remotely supports your argument of the Constitution not being founded on Christianity is the quote from the treaty of Tripoly. Even then, it's an outright lie (if legitimate), as it is clear that this country was by our government's general acceptance of God, not to mention his frequent mention in legislature, court rooms, and so on. This country was founded mainly from protestants. The fact that there is freedom of religion supports nothing in your argument- the only reason they included that is because the people who wrote the Bill of Rights did not want this country to end up like England, and had no intentions of forcing one single religion on every citizen.

Our country was founded on Christianity. If you want proof, take a few history classes. End of story.

Mimic, don't come into this thread and start insulting people. If you haven't noticed, this is in the Debate forum. If you can't be civil, get out. Also, you're wrong- none of Fohacidal's arguments are biased. If anything they're more informed than anyone's considering his family is far more devout that any other clan member's, giving him more knowledge on the topic, at least, in a religious sense.

[Mimic 3307]

It's basically been proven that CoS is a money leech. Or at least a religion with members that aren't exactly dedicated to helping others.

Read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_sci...ogy#Controversy

Yay, a Wiki link that could be edited by anybody.

Tonnes of proof you have there.

Creative, you're blowing this all out of proportion and denying the facts of history. After skimming that long ass post of quotes, I only found one that remotely supports your argument of the Constitution not being founded on Christianity is the quote from the treaty of Tripoly. Even then, it's an outright lie (if legitimate), as it is clear that this country was by our government's general acceptance of God, not to mention his frequent mention in legislature, court rooms, and so on. This country was founded mainly from protestants. The fact that there is freedom of religion supports nothing in your argument- the only reason they included that is because the people who wrote the Bill of Rights did not want this country to end up like England, and had no intentions of forcing one single religion on every citizen.

Our country was founded on Christianity. If you want proof, take a few history classes. End of story.

Mimic, don't come into this thread and start insulting people. If you haven't noticed, this is in the Debate forum. If you can't be civil, get out. Also, you're wrong- none of Fohacidal's arguments are biased. If anything they're more informed than anyone's considering his family is far more devout that any other clan member's, giving him more knowledge on the topic, at least, in a religious sense.

I am insulting him?

I called his comment retarded, not him.

[Øpiate 30]

If a church is willing to perform a same sex marriage, how is it not a violation of church and state separation for the government to interfere?

[Guest Fohacidal]

Yay, a Wiki link that could be edited by anybody.

Tonnes of proof you have there.

I am insulting him?

I called his comment retarded, not him.

First off, you can find proof of CoS corruption ALL over the internet, especially youtube, why the hell do you think Anon is waging an ideological war against them, because CoS is full of shit (literally)

And second, if you insult my comment, you insult my logic, and if you insult my logic your insulting me.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

If a church is willing to perform a same sex marriage, how is it not a violation of church and state separation for the government to interfere?

The plot thickens!

[projectmayhem9 8]

Yay, a Wiki link that could be edited by anybody.

Tonnes of proof you have there.

I am insulting him?

I called his comment retarded, not him.

I've seen some of the operations mentioned on TV, I was just providing a basic link to help you out of your lack of knowledge about the CoS and it's actions.

[Guest some fag]

If a church is willing to perform a same sex marriage, how is it not a violation of church and state separation for the government to interfere?

They don't. Only the insta-marriage barns in Vegas and similar businesses do.

[Kyle Mango 223]

if your gay you can get married in canada!!!

[Nacho 0]

I DIDN'T READ EVERYONE COMMENT, But i do agree with hobo completely, I think everyone should watch this video.

The thing he says about gays trying to take the word back is basically the parade thing. (This was in funnyshaz or something but he has great opinions)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVczvNJMMCo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVczvNJMMCo[/ame]

[Stupid_Monkey 0]

Im not gonna deal with you because you dont care to read my posts and just attack the most obvious things on a completely literal level.

It honestly doesn't matter who loves who or whether or not they are the same sex- all that's ok in my book... Only marriage is a religious matter, and according to the religion it directly relates to, it is a sin.

The gay opinion obviously doesn't really matter, same with anyone else's opinion. The United States government was based on the principles of Christianity, hence the reason why marriage is a legal matter and is a reason as to why gay marriage is NOT protected by the Constitution- otherwise, it would be allowed unless there was an Amendment put in place. The freedom of religion has nothing to do with marriage- it simply means that people have the right to practice whatever religion you want, and provides no support for your "gay opinion".

Homosexuality in it's essence is a sin by the book of God and the religion in which this country was founded on, therefore marriage- a holy union as a part of that religion- is hypocritical when it comes down to gay marriage.

Stupid Monky, I honestly can't make myself read through those moronic replies to Foh. It's obvious you didn't even read his or even understand what he was saying, so whatever. From what I have seen, you aren't catching onto the idea that we aren't saying loving one another is wrong- none of us are really saying that. But, if love really is the only true issue, then why do gays feel the need to be married? Marriage is a Christian ritual, making gay marriage legitamately impossible.

You don't really have a "right" to marriage. Homosexuals have all the same rights in America as straight people. They don't have the option of marriage (except for in some states who's governments condone smoking crack) because it's hypocritical and the whole idea of a holy union wouldn't be possible for them since their whole marriage would be a sin.

Well, in the constitution it says the freedom from religion, then why is there extra benefits for those who are married?

I can't argue that it's a "sin" but there should be an equivalence of marriage. And the reason I said something about foh was because he said that gay's and straight's shouldn't be on the same level. Well, I happen to have someone who is gay in my family and saying that they aren't as good as it, yeah it pisses me off. When people say that gay's don't have a right or they are below some kid, yeah I take offense.

You should come out of bible thumper mode and actually think about it.. WHO THE FUCK CARES if someone gets married. WHY THE FUCK DOES IT BOTHER YOU. Are you going to hell for it? No. Are you personally affected by it? No.

But you kids just sit there and preach and that's why I fucking hate bible thumpers. They are annoying and just need to not be such hypocrites. And by saying someone can't get married because of who they are marrying in my eyes is fucking hypocritical.

[Stupid_Monkey 0]

Do you have nothing to say? You and Foh (no offence to you Foh I'm cool with you now) never say anything worth while you don't address the points ever.

Seriously.

Also if someone says something, they take it to heart, but they say EVERYONE is ignorant, they personal attack gays. Well these kids need to learn respect before they get respect. You can't personal attack someone else then not be expected to attack you back. Kind of like what you said yourself foh, if you attack your logic, you attack them. By calling EVERYONE ignorant, you are just as bad as if not worst than everyone else here.

The thing is you put way to much copy pasta, a lot of the quotes are either redundant, not circumstantial to the point your trying to make or just plain irrelevant. You dont make a point, you just throw a whole bunch of words from other people's mouths and pretend that we know everything from your viewpoint now.

Fact of the matter is (and Zeus is right here) the constitution grants freedom to practice religion and freedom from organized religion. To allows same-sex couples the right to marriage and earn the same marital rights as straight couples is infringing on our tradition, which has always remained a straight one (sexually speaking). No offense to you creative, I think your cool and all but it just pisses me off some of the things a lot of the more "public" homosexuals do (gays and lesbians). Gay pride parades, gay pride websites, gay religious christian sects (yes they exist), a gay flag even the desire to mimic the traditional husband and wife role by not only receiving the title of married but also being entitled to the same marital rights as said straight couple. To me its insulting, in the future I can be happily married to my wife, in this case Ill call her Jane. Jane and I are the perfect stereotypical middle-class white married couple, 2 and a half children in a suburban house. Next door we have Joe and John, also married, 2 kids and entitled to the same rights and legal policies as my wife and I.

Now creative I dont mind you finding a nice guy, hooking up with him and living the rest of your days happily ever after with whatever kind of kid youll adopt, but when other gays go as far as to protest to get something that never belonged to them Im just gobsmacked.

Now I wouldnt mind a sort of "legal union" between the two that would at least let them adopt a kid and such but to go as far as calling it a marriage and putting it on level with straight couples, nu uh, wont fly with me

That's because you are bias kid. That's all there is too it. Until you learn to stop attacking everyone and not expect to be attacked back, you won't get respect. Also, putting people on "levels" for if they are gay or straight is bias too. Although, you'll just think I'm attacking you. Reality is, I wouldn't make personal remarks if you didn't say gays aren't as good as straights. That sir, makes me lose a lot of respect.

This is the kind of ignorance I was talking about, whether it was in jest or not keep it out of the topic please...

What are you implying with the trademark?

Like I said, this is like the third person you've called ignorant this topic.. When in reality, it really isn't. You just won't look at the bigger picture, you believe what you believe, and that's it.

Iv never actually payed the church a dime in my entire life, and any money my parents payed was just at church so the priest has something to live off of, its a donation.

If anything the "church" of scientology is the guiltiest of corruption.

These are just going to be repetitive, bias.

Your religion is better than all the rest. I forgot.

Im not biased, your just ignorant.

And there is a difference between being a MARRIED COUPLE and a US CITIZEN.

Again.

If a church is willing to perform a same sex marriage, how is it not a violation of church and state separation for the government to interfere?

Seriously.

The government shouldn't have a right.

Also, about the gay parades and stuff, that's pointless. But if we gave them a chance and gave them equal rights and weren't bashing them.. Do you think they would change? I think so.

[Guest Fohacidal]

Well, in the constitution it says the freedom from religion, then why is there extra benefits for those who are married?

I can't argue that it's a "sin" but there should be an equivalence of marriage. And the reason I said something about foh was because he said that gay's and straight's shouldn't be on the same level. Well, I happen to have someone who is gay in my family and saying that they aren't as good as it, yeah it pisses me off. When people say that gay's don't have a right or they are below some kid, yeah I take offense.

You should come out of bible thumper mode and actually think about it.. WHO THE FUCK CARES if someone gets married. WHY THE FUCK DOES IT BOTHER YOU. Are you going to hell for it? No. Are you personally affected by it? No.

But you kids just sit there and preach and that's why I fucking hate bible thumpers. They are annoying and just need to not be such hypocrites. And by saying someone can't get married because of who they are marrying in my eyes is fucking hypocritical.

Again Im not answering you because you dont care to understand my post, you just read "no equal marriage rights" and you instantly believe I hate gay people. That and you dont seem to understand the constitution.

Seriously.

Also if someone says something, they take it to heart, but they say EVERYONE is ignorant, they personal attack gays. Well these kids need to learn respect before they get respect. You can't personal attack someone else then not be expected to attack you back. Kind of like what you said yourself foh, if you attack your logic, you attack them. By calling EVERYONE ignorant, you are just as bad as if not worst than everyone else here.

That's because you are bias kid. That's all there is too it. Until you learn to stop attacking everyone and not expect to be attacked back, you won't get respect. Also, putting people on "levels" for if they are gay or straight is bias too. Although, you'll just think I'm attacking you. Reality is, I wouldn't make personal remarks if you didn't say gays aren't as good as straights. That sir, makes me lose a lot of respect.

Like I said, this is like the third person you've called ignorant this topic.. When in reality, it really isn't. You just won't look at the bigger picture, you believe what you believe, and that's it.

These are just going to be repetitive, bias.

Your religion is better than all the rest. I forgot.

Again.

Seriously.

The government shouldn't have a right.

Also, about the gay parades and stuff, that's pointless. But if we gave them a chance and gave them equal rights and weren't bashing them.. Do you think they would change? I think so.

Am I the only one noticing here he only quotes and attacks me? I swear wherever I go he is attacking me. That and he keeps calling everyone "kids" as if he is some hotshot adult that knows everything about the world. Its this kinda of pure blatant ignorance that really ticks me off. Not only does he use serious repition in his arguments, his points are poorly represented and he only responds to posts on a clearly superficial and literal way.

IMO This is a troll...

[GodzillA 0]

Fact of the matter is (and Zeus is right here) the constitution grants freedom to practice religion and freedom from organized religion. To allows same-sex couples the right to marriage and earn the same marital rights as straight couples is infringing on our tradition, which has always remained a straight one (sexually speaking).

Simple question, just explain to me how disallowing two same sex couples to marry based on the religious tradition, as you said (I am assuming our is referring to Christian), is seperating church and state. Again, religions are in no way, in my mind, being asked to recognize such marriages, only the government itself.