Adventurer Shotgun

[Gamer4125 40]

Okay, so I'm going to start off by saying that shotguns with STR maxed on adventurer is too good. We ain't even counting the plethora of Adventurer's other good skills. Time for some math. We will assume the enemy has no damage reduction other than armor.

 

Nova:

Nova shoots 9 pellets and does 16 damage to the stomach per pellet. (With Armor)

Let's assume at least 6 pellets land on the stomach with the others missing.

The gun damage deals 96 damage which is aight assuming the enemy doesn't have any damage reduction. Adventurer then adds +60 on that. 156 damage in total which kills most races unless they have bonus hp and a periapt in most cases. Say the enemy has chainmail. Nova gun damage then does 72. Add on the Adventurer dmg and that's 132 which still kills most races still assuming no damage reduction. That gives you a 176.28 DPS using the 156. (Unless I'm bad at math which is entirely possible.)

 

XM1014:

XM shoots 6 pellets which do 20 damage to the stomach per pellet. (With Armor)

We will assume at least 4 pellets land on the stomach with the others missing.

Raw gun damage deals 80 damage. Adventurer adds +40 to that giving you 120.

You may not one shot most races that are full hp at 125. With chainmail, the gun damage does 64 on top of Adventurer's +40. 104 might not one shot everyone you meet but you might if they didn't buy a ring. Using the 120 value,  you have a DPS of 342 which is pretty good if you have any amount of aim with a shotgun. Too good.

 

Mag7:

Mag7 shoots 8 pellets at 28 damage to the stomach with armor.

Again we assume that 5 pellets connect to the enemy's stomach with the others missing by some freak happening. Raw gun damage does 140 which is pretty insane to start with. Maybe we should crank down the pellets to 4. 4 pellets to the stomach do 112. Which ain't bad. Add Adventurer on there to make it 152 damage which will one shot any race without a good amount of bonus hp or even a periapt.

Slap on chainmail to make raw gun damage 96 which doesn't kill anyone, put on Adventurer's +40 

a nice 136 which kills most races in one go. At 92RPM and 156 damage you get a dps of 234.09. Pretty stronk.

 

Sawed Off:

Sawed Off shoots 8 pellets like its CT cousin, but at higher damage at 30 to an armored stomach. Sawed Off has the worst spread out of all of them so we assume 3 pellets hit. 3 pellets to an

armored stomach does 90. Pretty strong for 3 pellets right? Slap on Adventurer's +30 for 120 for a measly 3 pellets. Damn. Not one shot for every race but some of em. Slap on chainmail for 72 gun damage plus Adventurers +30 for 102. You can 2 shot most races with this. Using the 120 value with an RPM of 71, you have a DPS of 141.6. The worst of them all but nothing to laugh at.

 

So the obvious statement is, "But Gamer! Most races have a lot of +HP, Evade, and Damage Resistance!" Yes, and shotguns also have a rather random spread too. Depending the the skill level of the user (which doesn't have to be high) you can consistently one shot weaker races, two shot races with moderate amounts of HP/Evade/Dmg Res, and three shot the meatier races. The highest HP I've seen barring the meaty knife races is 225. Every one of these shotguns, as long as you get a decent spread can two shot that. (3-4 for wizard/ranger) Not to mention I didn't use the full pellet count, so you can potentially get even more damage OR Adventurer's other skills to give you survivability or way to get close to an enemy quick or unseen. Is it likely to have all pellets hit? No, unless they're on your dick when you fire.

 

TL;DR Shouldn't be able to ~3 shot people at medium range with a nova cause Adventurer bonus dmg doesn't give a shit about your damage resist or armor.

 

Edit: Just took 132 in 1 from a Remilia HS at 65% reduction if that says anything.

 

Supposedly I've been told my numbers are wrong. I used the Counter Strike Wikia for weapon stats, and if anyone has 'correct' stats for the 4 shotguns, I will redo the numbers. Either way, if these are old numbers then it does not include the buff shotguns got making them even stronger.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Gamer4125

[Neospawn 19]

I respect the effort you put into your argument with all the math. I agree entirely that Shotguns and Adventurers should not be allowed to marry. We must keep the races pure and putting those two together is a debacle!

[ATG_AGENT 290]

While i agree that adv + shotty can, and is very strong - your math is horribly wrong in its numbers. Spread being one major factor most of the time at normal fighting distances, far less then what you put will hit. The only time you will be hitting those numbers are point blank range, where frankly shotgun - should - win.

 

Medium ranges if lucky a adv shotgun nova (only shotgun you can range on) will need either luck for 2-3 solid groupings, or many shots. And with the time it takes between shots the rifle user should kill him. If he doesnt, then its the rifle users fault and the shotgun guy deserved the kill.

Edited July 29, 2014 by ATG_AGENT

[Gamer4125 40]

While i agree that adv + shotty can, and is very strong - your math is horribly wrong in its numbers. Spread being one major factor most of the time at normal fighting distances, far less then what you put will hit. The only time you will be hitting those numbers are point blank range, where frankly shotgun - should - win.

 

Medium ranges if lucky a adv shotgun nova (only shotgun you can range on) will need either luck for 2-3 solid groupings, or many shots. And with the time it takes between shots the rifle user should kill him. If he doesn't, then its the rifle users fault and the shotgun guy deserved the kill.

 

I should have thought about damage drop-offs, but I made specific pellet counts for a reason, also stating: " Yes, and shotguns also have a rather random spread too" and "Is it likely to have all pellets hit? No, unless they're on your dick when you fire." So my numbers aren't technically wrong. These numbers are also flexible in that with random spread you can just pretty much give or take some damage for range. Close range? expect a higher number, and if a long range, expect a little lower. It's just that it's aggravating to be one shot by a gun that wouldn't one shot normally because it gets bonus damage per pellet.If it got +10 damage per shell, that'd be fine which would also help the, also strong but not as cheap, claws + shotgun, as well as other races that get pure bonus damage. I should have included this in the op too, but I think solutions are +10 damage per shell, restricting shotguns off of it, or lowering the damage bonus to 5 or 6 tops.

 

And the thing with damage drop off , is that it's pretty negligible unless it's a range far longer than you should be fighting with a shotgun and bonus damage doesn't give a shit about damage drop-off. Nova has a pretty tight spread so at least 4-5 should hit which is 40-50 damage right there regardless of drop off damage.

 

Also the ranges I'm using for examples are; Medium range: Around halfway of the long corridor in Office and Short Range: Where you would normally use a shotgun :l 

[ATG_AGENT 290]

I should have thought about damage drop-offs, but I made specific pellet counts for a reason, also stating: " Yes, and shotguns also have a rather random spread too" and "Is it likely to have all pellets hit? No, unless they're on your dick when you fire." So my numbers aren't technically wrong. These numbers are also flexible in that with random spread you can just pretty much give or take some damage for range. Close range? expect a higher number, and if a long range, expect a little lower. It's just that it's aggravating to be one shot by a gun that wouldn't one shot normally because it gets bonus damage per pellet.If it got +10 damage per shell, that'd be fine which would also help the, also strong but not as cheap, claws + shotgun, as well as other races that get pure bonus damage. I should have included this in the op too, but I think solutions are +10 damage per shell, restricting shotguns off of it, or lowering the damage bonus to 5 or 6 tops.

 

And the thing with damage drop off , is that it's pretty negligible unless it's a range far longer than you should be fighting with a shotgun and bonus damage doesn't give a shit about damage drop-off. Nova has a pretty tight spread so at least 4-5 should hit which is 40-50 damage right there regardless of drop off damage.

 

Also the ranges I'm using for examples are; Medium range: Around halfway of the long corridor in Office and Short Range: Where you would normally use a shotgun :l 

 

 

Half way of long cor is still in short range, shotgun territory. If you want full hallway that's medium. The damage it does is strong but they are giving up the long range fight for short, and for mediums they are also at a disadvantage cause of spread issue which will cause multiple shots to be needed. Again while strong they are doing a trade off which makes it fine. Change your play style a bit to combat this and it shouldn't be causing you much problems. There are many ways to keep someone away from you, be it with skills/ability or general awareness of where they are and where you should/shouldn't go.

[Jasper 21]

What on earth are you guys talking about.

[BLiNDBoi 930]

Wasn't the +damage from the race nerfed on all shotties for this very reason?

[Face 1910]

I personally don't feel like I've seen many players using shotguns, and when I do see players using shotguns they do not even perform that well.

 

A sign of imbalance is a) lots of players using the same thing, and/or b) the players using that thing perform abnormally well (in comparison to their normal performance).

 

I think this is one of those things that it is simply frustrating to die to and thus makes people want to complain.  I can say, for every time I've died to a shotgunner on the WC3 server, I've killed 2-3 (excluding me playing a knife race)... they just simply are not that threatening.  Play a faster class, learn better movement, identify the fact that they have a shotgun and back up even more.

 

I think nerfing them right now would be silly and would take a wait-and-see approach myself.