Communism straigented out

[w33D.Ross 2]

. You teens today thinking because of Bush and Iraq and shit the only way to go is with communism or any liberal party available. This is why I have lost much respect for this generation, everyone is bandwagoning...

liberal/communism its all left wing so shutup please?

ok first off. i dont want to start anything with Foh, this is something that has been bothering me for years.

As most of you know, I consider myself a Communist, this is not entirely true. I am a Socialist, big difference. But i do consider in most arguments that i am a Communist.

now, i did not start calling my self in such a way, just because other people were doing it, or because bush is a moron. I started to do so, because i saw first hand the injustices of Capitalism and of the American government twords lower class society.

my best friends father worked in Smithfield meats for 25 years, as a low paid, no respect slaughterer. He did his job very well and help make Mr. Gwaltney and the town of Smithfield very rich. He was fired indiscriminately because of a new branch opening up near Ohio, they needed money from the Smithfield branch to help support the new one, so first thing to go, labourers. He did not receive any type of endorsement or reprieves. He was just fired.

now i live in a predominantly lower class area. And i sympathize with hard working people forced to be on welfare, or forced to work two or three jobs to support their families. i see it everyday.

for the second quote, you clearly state that Communism and any other form of left wing politics is the same, and i believe madmartini stated in that thread that left wing politics are nutjobs.

i admit that Communism is as left as you can get, but to compare Democrats, or Feminist, or Green Party or Anarchist to Communism is dumb.

that is the same as me saying that the Nazi party/ any form of Facism is the same as being a Republican or any other form of right winged politics

[bios 1]

Communism, if it worked like it is supposed to work would be an almost perfect "fair" form of government. But it never is and never will be. Two things, first, you both are not wrong and Foh you should respect his beliefs. Second, so let me get this straight Foh, you have lost respect for this generation for them bandwagoning liberalism? Apparently you should dive into a few history and political science books. I'm not saying you are stupid or anything I'm just going to point something out to you. Liberalism has been embraced by younger generations of people for years now. Ever hear of hippies? Younger people tend to be more liberal as they are just starting to experience their freedoms and are typically starting from scratch AKA poor. Poor people tend to embrace a government that will help them through the harder times in their lives. You have to realize that there are dynamics in politics, people aren't just jumping on the bandwagon. Maybe you just see it more because we have a fuckin douche-tard as a President and he has fucked our country up so bad that young people are forced to take action.

[projectmayhem9 8]

Communism, if it worked like it is supposed to work would be an almost perfect "fair" form of government. But it never is and never will be. Two things, first, you both are not wrong and Foh you should respect his beliefs. Second, so let me get this straight Foh, you have lost respect for this generation for them bandwagoning liberalism? Apparently you should dive into a few history and political science books. I'm not saying you are stupid or anything I'm just going to point something out to you. Liberalism has been embraced by younger generations of people for years now. Ever hear of hippies? Younger people tend to be more liberal as they are just starting to experience their freedoms and are typically starting from scratch AKA poor. Poor people tend to embrace a government that will help them through the harder times in their lives. You have to realize that there are dynamics in politics, people aren't just jumping on the bandwagon. Maybe you just see it more because we have a fuckin douche-tard as a President and he has fucked our country up so bad that young people are forced to take action.

Ross is a hippie lawl. Wow I'm using my new Razer Lycosa, it's so sweeet.

[Guest Fohacidal]

Communism, if it worked like it is supposed to work would be an almost perfect "fair" form of government. But it never is and never will be. Two things, first, you both are not wrong and Foh you should respect his beliefs. Second, so let me get this straight Foh, you have lost respect for this generation for them bandwagoning liberalism? Apparently you should dive into a few history and political science books. I'm not saying you are stupid or anything I'm just going to point something out to you. Liberalism has been embraced by younger generations of people for years now. Ever hear of hippies? Younger people tend to be more liberal as they are just starting to experience their freedoms and are typically starting from scratch AKA poor. Poor people tend to embrace a government that will help them through the harder times in their lives. You have to realize that there are dynamics in politics, people aren't just jumping on the bandwagon. Maybe you just see it more because we have a fuckin douche-tard as a President and he has fucked our country up so bad that young people are forced to take action.

Im not stupid I know this

Also ross what I meant by left wing is that all of them arent the same, but instead are all liberal practices

[w33D.Ross 2]

Im not stupid I know this

Also ross what I meant by left wing is that all of them arent the same, but instead are all liberal practices

again i wasnt calling you out on your quote, is just helped my argument that a lot of people will blend all left wing policies and assume all the parties are the same.

[UltimateOreo 145]

Communism is a fantastic system on paper, the perfect Government based on Profit Sharing. The problem is us. We are greedy and selfish, human nature. As long as there are greedy people, or just people at that matter, communism will never work in reality, despite how good it sounds.

[Guest Fohacidal]

again i wasnt calling you out on your quote, is just helped my argument that a lot of people will blend all left wing policies and assume all the parties are the same.

Thats the thing, im not blending and assuming, you misunderstood what I said. Right wing movements are conservative, left wing movements are liberal, it was just a generalization because both socialism and communism are liberal movements, such as how dictatorships and monarchies are conservative.

[Øpiate 30]

Democracy works best in the real world, people (me included) just have to get the fuck up and get involved.

[Fenix 0]

I wouldn't be so quick to dish out insults toward our current leadership, seeing as not everything that is wrong is because of him. Not by a long shot. Things were set in motion before he was even in the white house. I'm not saying he's perfect and blameless by any means, just realize that the problems we have today aren't entirely his fault. Also, calling him a "fuckin douche-tard" is extremely unfair. The man is running a country. Its no small responsibilty and in order to do it you have to be intelligent. Say what you want, the simple fact of the matter is that being the president is not easy.

As for the OP here, the injustices of capitalism are a necessary evil. I can sympathize with your pains as I am living in a similar situation scrabbling through school with 2 jobs, but thats life. Its unfair and its not right, but the bottom line is things happen and all you can do is "keep on keepin' on". Losing our current system would be a classic case of "you don't know what you have until its gone".

[Madmartigan 0]

I wouldn't be so quick to dish out insults toward our current leadership, seeing as not everything that is wrong is because of him. Not by a long shot. Things were set in motion before he was even in the white house. I'm not saying he's perfect and blameless by any means, just realize that the problems we have today aren't entirely his fault. Also, calling him a "fuckin douche-tard" is extremely unfair. The man is running a country. Its no small responsibilty and in order to do it you have to be intelligent. Say what you want, the simple fact of the matter is that being the president is not easy.

As for the OP here, the injustices of capitalism are a necessary evil. I can sympathize with your pains as I am living in a similar situation scrabbling through school with 2 jobs, but thats life. Its unfair and its not right, but the bottom line is things happen and all you can do is "keep on keepin' on". Losing our current system would be a classic case of "you don't know what you have until its gone".

Just thought I'd let you know that was very well put. Alot of people don't realize that it takes many years for economic stimuli to kick in, that it takes many years for major effects to be seen. Blaming someone for the problems of an entire nation is ridiculous.

Since this is ross' thread I thought he might appreciate something I found...Go check my new thread

[Guest Fohacidal]

Just thought I'd let you know that was very well put. Alot of people don't realize that it takes many years for economic stimuli to kick in, that it takes many years for major effects to be seen. Blaming someone for the problems of an entire nation is ridiculous.

Since this is ross' thread I thought he might appreciate something I found...Go check my new thread

Yeap, just like how people like to blame the Depression on Coolidge and the Republican party, when its really an unfair accusation.

[Jinn Master 0]

I believe I'll answer with a series of quotes.

"If, by the age of twenty, you are not a liberal, you have no heart.

If, by the age of forty, you are not a conservative, you have no head."

Your perspective changes as you age, and as life experience is gained, but the bottom line is that modern day liberalism fucks over personal rights. This is bad. Conservativeness on the other hand, allows for greater freedoms.

"Democracy only works until the people in power realize they can vote themselves larger paychecks."

Yes, democracy is flawed. No one will argue that. But, every governmental system in the world has flaws. Democracy just so happens to be the best compromise between protection and care of the people, and personal freedom.

"Ability is nothing without opportunity"

Communism and Socialism both do not allow for personal ability. In that type of government, all men are forced to be "equal", when all men are not. Anyone who says all men are equal, is a fool. Men differ in ability, both intellectually and physically. That in itself completely fucks up the playing field- its anything but level. Democracy, on the other hand, allows the driven to rise, and the people who are not, to fall. The only people on the bottom rung are people who have made mistakes, or who do not want to rise out of the gutter. The people who have made mistakes are pitiable, but there are plenty of charities to help them out. The others, I have no sympathy for.

Ability, or lack thereof, is key.

And here is one last perspective-

I can walk for a mile down the street, without a highschool diploma or even GED, and find 6 different jobs at 8$ an hour I am qualified for.

Jobs I can gain, approximate or average pay, and hours worked

Waiter- 10-15$ an hour including tips/6-10 hours

Fast Food employee- 6.30 $ an hour/ 6-10 hours

Grocery store stocker/sacker- 6.30$ an hour/ 6-10 hours

Small shop helper- 8$ an hour/ 8-10 hours

All these you can gain with charisma and confidence alone. Granted, you will get fired if you don't learn your job quickly, but if you can't figure out how to sack groceries, you have bigger problems.

Anyone who is without a family to support and cannot support themselves deserves whatever lot they have. Its their own damned fault. If they have a family, then I can understand. But at the same time, they can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and find a better job. Even that isn't that hard- GED costs about 150$- easily afforded by anyone within a span of two or three months.

[Madmartigan 0]

Jinn, I think I like you man, you've got a good head on your shoulders. You don't speak wisdom of paper, rather wisdom of understanding. He isn't attacking anyone's view and is far from praising his own...simply pointing out universal truths about mankind and how we work best. If you disagree with what he wrote, see if its not just that you feel obligated by your political affiliation to do so. A well thought out and written post

[Madmartigan 0]

Yeap, just like how people like to blame the Depression on Coolidge and the Republican party, when its really an unfair accusation.

...some things can't be foreseen until they happen once...At which point the same thing can happen again by another means. Meaning the economy crumbled and they didn't expect it, now we can watch for and prevent the same catalysts of an economic breakdown as that of the depression but it can still happen. To blame a single person for not being omnipotent is foolish

[Fenix 0]

Agreed. Also, don't forget that history repeats itself. Its happened over and over and over again. This time is no exception. Also Jinn. You rock.

[Guest Fohacidal]

"If, by the age of twenty, you are not a liberal, you have no heart.

If, by the age of forty, you are not a conservative, you have no head."

Actually you are right in the sense that people gain experience as they grow older but unlike the quote a bit bias to assume experience means you side with conservatism.

The quote is literally trying to address some of the basic qualities of human kind, that the younger generation (the child) always rebels against the older generation (the parents). This is human nature, and in a way has led to the type of lives we live today. Now to come to this conclusion is really simple, in an example lets say, we have a generation that wants change, it rebels, and after some sort of revolution it gets its way. Years later when life has become good and the politics have stabilized for that generation another younger generation wants revolution or some sort of drastic change again, prompting the older generation to want to keep their old values, or remain conservative.

This is why you have to remember, throughout much of history, and even American history, what we know as Liberal or Democrat and Conservative or Republican has flip flopped around. Ideals the republicans had 100 years ago dont reflect the ideals of current day Republicans. And this is because of what I said above.

Now Im not encouraging stereotyping, I myself am a staunch conservative with very few liberal compromises, and older generations do exist that support change. But other factors like social/economic status also affect people's opinions.

Not to mention kids (like Wafa Sultan) are very easily impressionable, so meh, its a lot of things, but it usually boils down to the above quote.

[Guest Fohacidal]

...some things can't be foreseen until they happen once...At which point the same thing can happen again by another means. Meaning the economy crumbled and they didn't expect it, now we can watch for and prevent the same catalysts of an economic breakdown as that of the depression but it can still happen. To blame a single person for not being omnipotent is foolish

Well we cant use that as an excuse either, perfect case in point:

Fordney-McCumber Tariff of the 20's established a 60% tax on importing all foreign goods, which was hoped to bolster the American economy, but instead not only did European countries raise tariffs on American imports, this meant they werent able to pay sufficient reparations to America, slowly starting to spin the depression towards us.

10 years later the Hawley-Smoot tariff came out in the 30s prior to the new deal, it did the exact same thing, had the exact same intentions, but suffered the exact same consequences.

Sometimes it really is our fault, but you cant ever blame it on one person or one administration.

[Jinn Master 0]

Actually you are right in the sense that people gain experience as they grow older but unlike the quote a bit bias to assume experience means you side with conservatism.

How could you tell

Nah, I try to be as objective as possible, but I'm a conservative to the core. I do have some liberal ideas though.

[UltimateOreo 145]

I would like to add to the arguement against Bush being a "douche-fuck tard". You have to remember, we live in a DEMOCRACY. Yes people, Democracy, not a dictatorship. Bush does not rule the country by himself. Ever heard of Congress? Mhm, Congress voted to go into Iraq also. 296 of your elected officials thought that there was enough evidence to invade Iraq, in conclusion, I don't care about your views on the war, I really don't. What I do care about is the ignorant statements made about Bush.

[Guest Fohacidal]

I would like to add to the arguement against Bush being a "douche-fuck tard". You have to remember, we live in a DEMOCRACY. Yes people, Democracy, not a dictatorship. Bush does not rule the country by himself. Ever heard of Congress? Mhm, Congress voted to go into Iraq also. 296 of your elected officials thought that there was enough evidence to invade Iraq, in conclusion, I don't care about your views on the war, I really don't. What I do care about is the ignorant statements made about Bush.

People will just tell you that congress had a republican majority... they will never give up at finding flaws with the conservative party.

[Contract Killer 24]

I would like to add to the arguement against Bush being a "douche-fuck tard". You have to remember, we live in a DEMOCRACY. Yes people, Democracy, not a dictatorship. Bush does not rule the country by himself. Ever heard of Congress? Mhm, Congress voted to go into Iraq also. 296 of your elected officials thought that there was enough evidence to invade Iraq, in conclusion, I don't care about your views on the war, I really don't. What I do care about is the ignorant statements made about Bush.

This was godly, you and me and martigan think alike I swear, I hate when people bitch about bush.

[Guest Fohacidal]

This was godly, you and me and martigan think alike I swear, I hate when people bitch about bush.

And me?

[Jinn Master 0]

I don't hate Bush- however, I do think someone should shoot Cheney right between the eyes. Twice.

Most of the problems that originated during Bush's term can be laid at his feet, the fucker.

I also don't respect Bush, since he seems to be Cheney's puppet. However, you will never hear me declaiming my CIC publicly, and very rarely privately. I just wish our president would grow a backbone.

Aah, the wondrous things that would happen if only veteran bully sergeants were elected president...

[Fenix 0]

flaws in the party or not, that republican majority that seems to come up a lot came from the people voting their congressmen in. So its always going to come back down to the voters who put those people in the seats in the first place. Thats why all this works like it does. Now am I saying that every congressman/woman votes like their constituents want them to all the tim? NO! but you can't deny that the people put them in the position to make those decisions.