Underrepresentation in Democracy

[projectmayhem9 8]

In a Republic, elected representatives make the laws. In a "pure" Democracy there are no representatives and the people themselves vote on each issue. James Madison in the Federalist #10 in 1787 was the first to seperate the definitions of democracy and republic.Today the distinction between the two terms has been lost and most of the world defines the modern republic as a modern democracy. California and states who put for similar intiatives on their ballots are closer to pure democracy.

owned =P

Majority rule is a democracy. USA is a Republic

.

In the USA rather than vote on issues, we elect like-thinking representatives to study the topic and make informed decisions.

Additionally, States are represented in Congress in such a way that the Majority can not trod upon the minority. We have representatives based on population, but we have Senators two per State.

In a majority-rule system the most populous states would control the country...and could effectively make decisions for the smaller States.

The 10th amendment of the USA Constitution also severely limits the power of the Federal Government and grants most power to each State and the citizens.

The 10th Amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

In 2001 our congress voted and WE ARE a republic

There are two main forms of democracy in our world. Respresentative and direct.

[vegetavegeta 0]

if it wasnt clear from that i give up we are a republic

[projectmayhem9 8]

if it wasnt clear from that i give up we are a republic

I realize that, I'm saying our government is structured off of a representative democracy.

[Guest Fohacidal]

Actually what you said creative sounded like a representative democracy, dont know if thats a republic, but Im to lazy to search definitions

[vegetavegeta 0]

lol well im not sure but i think and by i think i mean i know that our country made up the term "representive democracy" but our government is decent i was just pointing it out

[projectmayhem9 8]

lol well im not sure but i think and by i think i mean i know that our country made up the term "representive democracy" but our government is decent i was just pointing it out

We aren't the only ones who use a representative democracy lol...

[UnknownLegend 5480]

Hmmm...something tells me the debate was obsolete anyway.

Junzou, I enjoy debating and I didn't mean to kill this thread by my comment. I'll try hard to find something else we can fight about

Don't worry, Project saved us!

Minorities are given more opportunities than whites nowadays...

Sadly, this is true project.

Ladies and gentlemen, White Privilege in one of its purest forms...

Are you guys fucking kidding? Look at the demographics of colleges, you will find disproportionate amounts of white vs. minority students enrolled, and several Universities actually HANDICAPPED certain minorities' test scores to decrease the amount admitted into the schools. Today you will find more minorities working menial jobs and more whites working "white collar" managerial / business positions.

Prisons are overflowing, and again, you see hugely disproportionate amounts of white vs. minorities in prisons. You can argue that "well, blacks must commit more crimes!" and that MIGHT be true, but not in the levels that exist today (supported by research performed by sociologists).

Healthcare disparities exist, you have racist studies such as a handful of studies showing that "African American" males are more prone to heart disease, and that certain drugs work better for one race than another. BiDil is one such example-- The FDA approved its use on blacks, but not on whites... Why? Interestingly enough, the drug was tested more than 20 years earlier and was REJECTED because it showed statistically insignificant effectiveness towards combating heart disease (in a study in which race was not a factor). If you actually go compare the studies, the p value (significance) was altered between the studies. Essentially, they took the exact same study, did it on blacks, and then altered their p value to make it appear like it was working better.

I'm gonna stop ranting here, someone respond so I can attack an argument individually.

[Contract Killer 24]

Don't worry, Project saved us!

Ladies and gentlemen, White Privilege in one of its purest forms...

Are you guys fucking kidding? Look at the demographics of colleges, you will find disproportionate amounts of white vs. minority students enrolled, and several Universities actually HANDICAPPED certain minorities' test scores to decrease the amount admitted into the schools. Today you will find more minorities working menial jobs and more whites working "white collar" managerial / business positions.

Prisons are overflowing, and again, you see hugely disproportionate amounts of white vs. minorities in prisons. You can argue that "well, blacks must commit more crimes!" and that MIGHT be true, but not in the levels that exist today (supported by research performed by sociologists).

Healthcare disparities exist, you have racist studies such as a handful of studies showing that "African American" males are more prone to heart disease, and that certain drugs work better for one race than another. BiDil is one such example-- The FDA approved its use on blacks, but not on whites... Why? Interestingly enough, the drug was tested more than 20 years earlier and was REJECTED because it showed statistically insignificant effectiveness towards combating heart disease (in a study in which race was not a factor). If you actually go compare the studies, the p value (significance) was altered between the studies. Essentially, they took the exact same study, did it on blacks, and then altered their p value to make it appear like it was working better.

I'm gonna stop ranting here, someone respond so I can attack an argument individually.

I cna easily explain that for the african american side. You can't lie and say whenever you see or think about a black, you think "Gangster" or "Thug", that is just what most portray themselves as, thinking they have to be the sterotype, thus, most don't give a shit about a good job, just being a "Mac/Sugar daddy". There is no escaping the ghetto.

Oh yes, let me see this in yellow and green, the studies you talk about, I want websites, and don't give me fucking wikipedia.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

I cna easily explain that for the african american side. You can't lie and say whenever you see or think about a black, you think "Gangster" or "Thug", that is just what most portray themselves as, thinking they have to be the sterotype, thus, most don't give a shit about a good job, just being a "Mac/Sugar daddy". There is no escaping the ghetto.

Racist thinking. I could examine a handful of white gangster wanna-be's and make the same assumptions about the white race.

Oh yes, let me see this in yellow and green, the studies you talk about, I want websites, and don't give me fucking wikipedia.

Sorry, this time the studies are inaccessible to you unless you have an account with an academic database, not your high school's lexis nexus. Go do a google scholar search.

[Madmartigan 0]

Racist thinking. I could examine a handful of white gangster wanna-be's and make the same assumptions about the white race.

Sorry, this time the studies are inaccessible to you unless you have an account with an academic database, not your high school's lexis nexus. Go do a google scholar search.

Dude, are you kidding me? How in the hell is that racist thinking. There is a difference between racisim, and a culture that is begging to be ridiculed. I don't give a damn who you are, thug types are all shit. It just so happens that black culture didn't have much to go on in the early 70's in america so they adopted their own. One of vengeance and hate. If you don't think the black society preaches hate then you have a cover over your eyes. I'm not saying I hate black people or even don't respect them, I'm saying the percentage of them who have CHOSEN to lead a meaningless life is so much higher than in any other race. Thats so far from racism, its called the truth.

By the way, I have access to plenty of "inaccessible studies," Contract, what you find on the web is what you will find anywhere else unless you are looking for conveyance, mortgage, or other property records...If its in the paper, on the news, or in a library...you can access it on the internet.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

Dude, are you kidding me? How in the hell is that racist thinking. There is a difference between racisim, and a culture that is begging to be ridiculed. I don't give a damn who you are, thug types are all shit. It just so happens that black culture didn't have much to go on in the early 70's in america so they adopted their own. One of vengeance and hate. If you don't think the black society preaches hate then you have a cover over your eyes. I'm not saying I hate black people or even don't respect them, I'm saying the percentage of them who have CHOSEN to lead a meaningless life is so much higher than in any other race. Thats so far from racism, its called the truth.

No, it's called stereotyping. This is exactly what I think we both mean by "arguments going around and around," you believe something and I believe something else. The difference is I'm willing to accept that what I believe isn't always right-- the reason I don't accept your assertions that "all black people have adopted a thug culture" and "black society preaches hate" is because I used to believe that before I was educated in race politics and opened my eyes enough to see that not all blacks are like that. I'm not going to sit here and preach to you any more, I'm assuming you're in college, and if you aren't willing to accept views outside of your own narrow-minded zone that's fine... I will definitely agree that ignorance is bliss.

By the way, I have access to plenty of "inaccessible studies," Contract, what you find on the web is what you will find anywhere else unless you are looking for conveyance, mortgage, or other property records...If its in the paper, on the news, or in a library...you can access it on the internet.

No, you can't. Academic journals have huge registration fees and you CAN NOT always access journal articles on the net without a subscription to a particular journal, or a database that has been licensed to distribute those articles. Like I said, I'm assuming you're in college, you should know this shit.

[Madmartigan 0]

No, it's called stereotyping. This is exactly what I think we both mean by "arguments going around and around," you believe something and I believe something else. The difference is I'm willing to accept that what I believe isn't always right-- the reason I don't accept your assertions that "all black people have adopted a thug culture" and "black society preaches hate" is because I used to believe that before I was educated in race politics and opened my eyes enough to see that not all blacks are like that. I'm not going to sit here and preach to you any more, I'm assuming you're in college, and if you aren't willing to accept views outside of your own narrow-minded zone that's fine... I will definitely agree that ignorance is bliss.

No, you can't. Academic journals have huge registration fees and you CAN NOT always access journal articles on the net without a subscription to a particular journal, or a database that has been licensed to distribute those articles. Like I said, I'm assuming you're in college, you should know this shit.

When have I ever displayed myself as closed minded? I am open to plenty of other viewpoints...which I state in NEARLY EVERY rebuttal I make. But I always clarify that I don't necessarily agree with those viewpoints. YOU need to get your facts straight. I didn't once say that all blacks are bad, I said the STATISTICS mr p-value man, show what is true...That most crimes are commited by them, that the largest percentage of people who have adopted the welfare lifestyle are black.

Seriously, do not call me narrow-minded...I will agree on many things thats I usually wouldn't if you can persuade me to...Unfortunately for you though, there is very little you can do to make me believe a lie. You're insight from "race politics" classes has perhaps made you the narrow minded one. You found something you believed to be true and now you won't open your eyes to whats going on in the world. Namely that we are feeding a culture that should be destroyed, we accept things that shouldn't be accepted. Oh and just to clarify so that you don't pull some "you're racist" crap on me, I said the CULTURE, not the people, should be destroyed

About academic journals, you can't get any academic journals where I go to school that aren't public domain unless you suscribe to them...meaning pay extra. And are you seriously trying to tell me you pay to study up on those journals? You can get the same information that someone figured out 20 years ago on the internet. Unless you are dealing with an advancing field; science, math, medicine, engineering...nothing really changes except the time period its in...

Edit - I don't think you've once come close to showing that you're "willing to accept that what I believe isn't always right"

[projectmayhem9 8]

Don't worry, Project saved us!

Ladies and gentlemen, White Privilege in one of its purest forms...

Are you guys fucking kidding? Look at the demographics of colleges, you will find disproportionate amounts of white vs. minority students enrolled, and several Universities actually HANDICAPPED certain minorities' test scores to decrease the amount admitted into the schools. Today you will find more minorities working menial jobs and more whites working "white collar" managerial / business positions.

Prisons are overflowing, and again, you see hugely disproportionate amounts of white vs. minorities in prisons. You can argue that "well, blacks must commit more crimes!" and that MIGHT be true, but not in the levels that exist today (supported by research performed by sociologists).

Healthcare disparities exist, you have racist studies such as a handful of studies showing that "African American" males are more prone to heart disease, and that certain drugs work better for one race than another. BiDil is one such example-- The FDA approved its use on blacks, but not on whites... Why? Interestingly enough, the drug was tested more than 20 years earlier and was REJECTED because it showed statistically insignificant effectiveness towards combating heart disease (in a study in which race was not a factor). If you actually go compare the studies, the p value (significance) was altered between the studies. Essentially, they took the exact same study, did it on blacks, and then altered their p value to make it appear like it was working better.

I'm gonna stop ranting here, someone respond so I can attack an argument individually.

Damn I can't remember where I saw this but a lot of colleges actually admit minorities over whites.

How do you know it isn't because black people commit more crimes? And who the hell cares anyways?

[Guest Fohacidal]

An easy explanation for why minorities are usually in prisons is because minorities especially blacks and latinos are usually what constitues the lower class, which are much more prone to commiting crimes then middle to upper classes which are constituted by more whites

[bios 1]

Seriously, listen to yourselves. You are talking about shit that doesn't even matter.

[Guest Fohacidal]

Seriously, listen to yourselves. You are talking about shit that doesn't even matter.

Keeps everyone busy

[UnknownLegend 5480]

When have I ever displayed myself as closed minded? I am open to plenty of other viewpoints...which I state in NEARLY EVERY rebuttal I make. But I always clarify that I don't necessarily agree with those viewpoints. YOU need to get your facts straight. I didn't once say that all blacks are bad, I said the STATISTICS mr p-value man, show what is true...That most crimes are commited by them, that the largest percentage of people who have adopted the welfare lifestyle are black.

Seriously, do not call me narrow-minded...I will agree on many things thats I usually wouldn't if you can persuade me to...Unfortunately for you though, there is very little you can do to make me believe a lie. You're insight from "race politics" classes has perhaps made you the narrow minded one. You found something you believed to be true and now you won't open your eyes to whats going on in the world. Namely that we are feeding a culture that should be destroyed, we accept things that shouldn't be accepted. Oh and just to clarify so that you don't pull some "you're racist" crap on me, I said the CULTURE, not the people, should be destroyed

Ok, I admit, calling you narrow-minded was hasty. Let's take a moment and break down the problems I have with your statements, and why I just pulled the "you're narrow minded!" card and wiped my hands of it.

First and foremost, blacks didn't "choose" their lifestyle, it was thrust upon them. Housing, education (both secondary and primary), and transportation segregation put an entire generation in a bad position, leaving the next generation in an equally bad position. You say they chose to be put there-- we PUT them there. They adopted a lifestyle of poverty and welfare because they had no choice, it was either take welfare or die of starvation. You say they "adopted a culture of hate and violence," when we're the ones responsible for the culture they "adopted." I suppose the thing that speaks MOST for your innate racist logic (highlighted because I know you were just waiting for me to say it) is the fact that you attribute this culture as being "black culture," a racially determined culture, rather than a CLASS-related culture. By saying it's "black culture" you make the assertion that whites, latinos, natives, and asians couldn't have that culture, or if they did, they'd be taking after blacks.

Now on to my next beef-- You said a culture should be destroyed. Seriously, isn't that a bit harsh? I'll agree, certain elements that have infiltrated the culture created by lower-class Americans do need to be fixed, but to say "we need to destroy black culture" is taking it a step too far. Destroying music (cmon, seriously, destroy Jazz?), cultural foods and stories, clothing adaptations-- is that all really necessary? You don't address the core problems, even if you wiped the culture of every black man woman and child, there would still be those living in poverty and then you would have no black culture, just the culture of poverty. Gangs, prostitution, etc would all re-emerge. Black culture isn't the problem, the whole class dynamic is the problem.

What annoys me most about these theory courses I'm taking, my WGSS class for example, is that they always show you the problem, but rarely a solution. So I can sit here all day and bitch, but at the end of the day when someone asks me "ok, what do we do then?" I can't answer them with a plan. The only reason I even bother commenting here is because everyone here disagrees with me, so there's always a new twist on how I should be proposing my arguments.

About academic journals, you can't get any academic journals where I go to school that aren't public domain unless you suscribe to them...meaning pay extra. And are you seriously trying to tell me you pay to study up on those journals? You can get the same information that someone figured out 20 years ago on the internet. Unless you are dealing with an advancing field; science, math, medicine, engineering...nothing really changes except the time period its in...

Not public domain, requires a subscription to PsycARTICLES

http://www-mi1.csa.com/ids70/advanced_sear...2f586251d4a446d

Not public domain, requires a subscription to PsycINFO

http://www-mi1.csa.com/ids70/advanced_sear...b66cbb27f9ca1e9

Not public domain, requires a subscription to EconLIT

http://www-mi1.csa.com/ids70/advanced_sear...fc7d40dc6baf99e

Those are a few examples of UP TO DATE journal databases that I have access too because my school pays for them. Yes, there are some journals that I don't have access to because they haven't made contracts with those databases... They are not public domain, the databases have made contracts with them. These databases aren't like ERIC or JSTOR, their shit is actually up to date.

My school also has a variety of journals that aren't listed in those databases in our library-- we have something like 20,000 square feet of journal archives for a school of less than 2,000 kids.

[projectmayhem9 8]

Ok, I admit, calling you narrow-minded was hasty. Let's take a moment and break down the problems I have with your statements, and why I just pulled the "you're narrow minded!" card and wiped my hands of it.

First and foremost, blacks didn't "choose" their lifestyle, it was thrust upon them. Housing, education (both secondary and primary), and transportation segregation put an entire generation in a bad position, leaving the next generation in an equally bad position. You say they chose to be put there-- we PUT them there. They adopted a lifestyle of poverty and welfare because they had no choice, it was either take welfare or die of starvation. You say they "adopted a culture of hate and violence," when we're the ones responsible for the culture they "adopted." I suppose the thing that speaks MOST for your innate racist logic (highlighted because I know you were just waiting for me to say it) is the fact that you attribute this culture as being "black culture," a racially determined culture, rather than a CLASS-related culture. By saying it's "black culture" you make the assertion that whites, latinos, natives, and asians couldn't have that culture, or if they did, they'd be taking after blacks.

Now on to my next beef-- You said a culture should be destroyed. Seriously, isn't that a bit harsh? I'll agree, certain elements that have infiltrated the culture created by lower-class Americans do need to be fixed, but to say "we need to destroy black culture" is taking it a step too far. Destroying music (cmon, seriously, destroy Jazz?), cultural foods and stories, clothing adaptations-- is that all really necessary? You don't address the core problems, even if you wiped the culture of every black man woman and child, there would still be those living in poverty and then you would have no black culture, just the culture of poverty. Gangs, prostitution, etc would all re-emerge. Black culture isn't the problem, the whole class dynamic is the problem.

What annoys me most about these theory courses I'm taking, my WGSS class for example, is that they always show you the problem, but rarely a solution. So I can sit here all day and bitch, but at the end of the day when someone asks me "ok, what do we do then?" I can't answer them with a plan. The only reason I even bother commenting here is because everyone here disagrees with me, so there's always a new twist on how I should be proposing my arguments.

Not public domain, requires a subscription to PsycARTICLES

http://www-mi1.csa.com/ids70/advanced_sear...2f586251d4a446d

Not public domain, requires a subscription to PsycINFO

http://www-mi1.csa.com/ids70/advanced_sear...b66cbb27f9ca1e9

Not public domain, requires a subscription to EconLIT

http://www-mi1.csa.com/ids70/advanced_sear...fc7d40dc6baf99e

Those are a few examples of UP TO DATE journal databases that I have access too because my school pays for them. Yes, there are some journals that I don't have access to because they haven't made contracts with those databases... They are not public domain, the databases have made contracts with them. These databases aren't like ERIC or JSTOR, their shit is actually up to date.

My school also has a variety of journals that aren't listed in those databases in our library-- we have something like 20,000 square feet of journal archives for a school of less than 2,000 kids.

Guys, seriously, who cares?

Not like you can do anything about it.

[Guest Fohacidal]

Junzou why is it 90% of the time you post sources they need some sort of subscription?

[UnknownLegend 5480]

Junzou why is it 90% of the time you post sources they need some sort of subscription?

Because 90% of what I read now is journals =\

I'll try to be better about this though, SOMETIMES (not always) you can find journal articles using Google Scholar, so from this point forward when I say "studies show," I'll dig up a citation and try to find a google link for it. If I don't post a link, it means it can't be accessed through Google Scholar.

[Contract Killer 24]

Racist thinking. I could examine a handful of white gangster wanna-be's and make the same assumptions about the white race.

Sorry, this time the studies are inaccessible to you unless you have an account with an academic database, not your high school's lexis nexus. Go do a google scholar search.

Ya, I'm sure it's racist thinking when 3 of my best friends are black, I just call them niggers and make them do slave work, and so if you can't show your studies, they mean shit, Im not taking out my time to research what YOU posted.

EDIT: Also, that's not racist, I said "what comes to mind" not "all blacks are thugs".

[UnknownLegend 5480]

Ya, I'm sure it's racist thinking when 3 of my best friends are black, I just call them niggers and make them do slave work, and so if you can't show your studies, they mean shit, Im not taking out my time to research what YOU posted.

EDIT: Also, that's not racist, I said "what comes to mind" not "all blacks are thugs".

Ah, I love this logical fallacy. "My friends are black, I can't be racist!"

Can't show the studies kid, like I said in my previous posts, your school needs subscriptions to major databases to access them.

Also, I think it's funny how you discount Wikipedia so much =D It's a great way to get acquainted with a topic and to find more legitimate sources from, but it doesn't hold up as a reliable source in an academic paper. You should learn to embrace it, but take it with a grain of salt.

[Contract Killer 24]

Yes, wikipedia is oh so great, I am researching Walter Payton (Played for the Chicago Bears, won 1985 superbowl, look it up) And I found some wrong things after looking at other sites, and in it, it says "He was a fucking faggot", plus numerous, worse things.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

Ah, I love this logical fallacy. "My friends are black, I can't be racist!"

Can't show the studies kid, like I said in my previous posts, your school needs subscriptions to major databases to access them.

Also, I think it's funny how you discount Wikipedia so much =D It's a great way to get acquainted with a topic and to find more legitimate sources from, but it doesn't hold up as a reliable source in an academic paper. You should learn to embrace it, but take it with a grain of salt.

Yes, wikipedia is oh so great, I am researching Walter Payton (Played for the Chicago Bears, won 1985 superbowl, look it up) And I found some wrong things after looking at other sites, and in it, it says "He was a fucking faggot", plus numerous, worse things.

[projectmayhem9 8]

Ah, I love this logical fallacy. "My friends are black, I can't be racist!"

Can't show the studies kid, like I said in my previous posts, your school needs subscriptions to major databases to access them.

Also, I think it's funny how you discount Wikipedia so much =D It's a great way to get acquainted with a topic and to find more legitimate sources from, but it doesn't hold up as a reliable source in an academic paper. You should learn to embrace it, but take it with a grain of salt.

Mike Powell y halo thar!