Discuss this quote

[w33D.Ross 2]

i like my hypothetical situation better.

[Madmartigan 0]

I'm not going to lie, I don't think any of you have even really come close to contesting the information and opinions I have put forth.

Of course you want me to stop bringing up this quote:"As a truly omnipotent and good being, God could create beings with true freedom over God. Furthermore, God would voluntarily do so because "the greatest good ... which can be done for a being, greater than anything else that one can do for it, is to be truly free." -Søren Kierkegaard. I am sure your bible and sunday school have not equipped you well enough to deal with it.

What gives you the right to say what is contesting your question or not? Just because you don't want to change your viewpoint doesn't mean that the shit myself or fohacidal has said is moot. Atheists and agnostics have the biggest fucking heads of anyone I've ever met, because in their eyes, they have defeated a god...Only problem is that its your psyche defeating your mind, you in no way have defeated God, or anything for that matter. I'm pretty fucking smart, I'm an engineer, and I am more than capable of thinking on my own. As for the following quote, it was put up as a safeguard to create an illusion that you are in this for knowledge and learning rather than to start shit..."Please keep trying though....I really want to be proven wrong. I want to be swayed...seriously." No matter what is said you can continue to deny what you want to, regardless of whether or not its a good point. I refuse to trade words with a wall...fohacidal, im sorry, but some arguements can't be won, and to continue on with them is to waste your breath.

Polis, weed...I don't know either of you, just as I don't know anyone on this server. I play here for fun. Even though I disagree with everything you both are saying, I know its just a difference of opinion. I wish you the best in your quest for truth, I hope it finds you one day if you are indeed looking for it

[Madmartigan 0]

It doesn't make a sound. You would have to be around to percieve the vibrations in the air caused from the falling of the tree. If no one is around then the vibrations in the air do not translate into sound. Sound is a perception.

Of course you want me to stop bringing up this quote:"As a truly omnipotent and good being, God could create beings with true freedom over God. Furthermore, God would voluntarily do so because "the greatest good ... which can be done for a being, greater than anything else that one can do for it, is to be truly free." -Søren Kierkegaard. I am sure your bible and sunday school have not equipped you well enough to deal with it.

One last thing...As I do have experience way beyond what I'm guessing you have in this field...Sound is not a perception. Energy is lost to produce sound, therefore it is substance...Sound is most certainly not a perception, it travels in waves, creates vibrations, and is there whether you are around or not. Are you telling me a vibration is also a perception?

[Guest Fohacidal]

It doesn't make a sound. You would have to be around to percieve the vibrations in the air caused from the falling of the tree. If no one is around then the vibrations in the air do not translate into sound. Sound is a perception.

Of course you want me to stop bringing up this quote:"As a truly omnipotent and good being, God could create beings with true freedom over God. Furthermore, God would voluntarily do so because "the greatest good ... which can be done for a being, greater than anything else that one can do for it, is to be truly free." -Søren Kierkegaard. I am sure your bible and sunday school have not equipped you well enough to deal with it.

I dont go to sunday school, and nice bias there, he attacked mainly attacked the institution of the Danish Church, your contorting it to christianity in general, regardless of what he said, he was a close minded philosopher, a truly open minded person would embrace both science and religion.

One last thing...As I do have experience way beyond what I'm guessing you have in this field...Sound is not a perception. Energy is lost to produce sound, therefore it is substance...Sound is most certainly not a perception, it travels in waves, creates vibrations, and is there whether you are around or not. Are you telling me a vibration is also a perception?

I was just about to say this, saying sound is a perception is one of the dumbest things Iv heard in my lifetime.

[Rizan 0]

So, i gotta agree with fetus here. These threads always turn out the same, both sides argue and in the end everyone just read a thread. If a god does exist, and he doesnt allow free will, he is a boring mofo. I have complete control over everything in my life, and nobody can tell me different. If i win at something its because i busted ass and won, and if i fail the only place to look for someone to blame is in the mirror and i need to push harder to improve it. People only do evil things because their perception of what is right to do has warped their morals.

and contract, that was by far the most ignorant thing you could have ever said, your daily life depends on science and that is a fact, show a little respect or go live in the woods.

Edit:

I was just about to say this, saying sound is a perception is one of the dumbest things Iv heard in my lifetime.

there is a theory that humans shape the universe, and things only happen when we percieve them and such, but i really think that is bullshit. I dont know if you guys have seen the movie "What the bleep do we know" or "The Secret", but the movies are all about this subject, exploring what if humans can shape the universe actively. The only point that the movies ever tried to get across really though is that you need to think positively and good things will happen, which makes sense because if you think positively you are going to work towards positive things, its what fuels your desire.

[w33D.Ross 2]

everything is perception.

if a majority says that a blue mug is yellow, then that mug is yellow.

if the majority says that vibrations are a minds perception of an empty presence, than vibrations are emptiness.

and like always the theist run away instead of contending.

[Guest Fohacidal]

there is a theory that humans shape the universe, and things only happen when we percieve them and such, but i really think that is bullshit. I dont know if you guys have seen the movie "What the bleep do we know" or "The Secret", but the movies are all about this subject, exploring what if humans can shape the universe actively. The only point that the movies ever tried to get across really though is that you need to think positively and good things will happen, which makes sense because if you think positively you are going to work towards positive things, its what fuels your desire.

It is just a theory, and I doubt much evidence, if any evidence, that isnt subjective, may exist to support said theory.

[JustFetus 1]

Theist, stop trying to prove there is a god. Find something better to do.

We (well at least I) don't try to prove God. Who started this and all the other threads about there being no God? What's the point? If you somehow get someone to believe there is no God with your arguments, then they didn't deserve to believe in him in the first place. What a waste of time.

lawl, if your referring to me I say go fuck yourself. See this is America dick lick where my first Amendment will allow me to tell you to fuck off ya cunt. I've never heard you say anything positive ever. You don't play anymore why are you even on the forums? To annoy people with your cockiness? I've discussed my opinion on god, but most people only use god as hope. Its like you use him only to try and benefit for yourself especially when death is near, and to reply to Polis. I think God is neither of those choices.

Why wouldn't I be on the forums? We don't really talk about CS:S here (example: this thread) and I have many friends here. I'm just saying, why do you (atheists, in general) try to disprove God? Okay, fine you don't believe he exists, that's it. No need to start arguments with those that do believe, because everyone knows these arguments NEVER end up getting anywhere and end up pointless.

[Guest Fohacidal]

Why wouldn't I be on the forums? We don't really talk about CS:S here (example: this thread) and I have many friends here. I'm just saying, why do you (atheists, in general) try to disprove God? Okay, fine you don't believe he exists, that's it. No need to start arguments with those that do believe, because everyone knows these arguments NEVER end up getting anywhere and end up pointless.

You know I never thought about it that way, why is it that atheists want to try and disprove god to everyone, now its reversed, instead of the Church trying to turn a lot of people, its the non-believers that are trying to turn people.

[Kelso 4]

Basically the quote is asking why doesn't God control a good chunk of events.

EDIT: Read through posts, question answered.

[Polis 0]

Sound is the vibration of matter, as perceived by the sense of hearing. Sound is not actually the vibration of said matter, but the end result of your ear translating the vibrations. Therefore sound would be a perception. Fucking learn your shit before you try to pull your degree on me.

sound - The sensation stimulated in the organs of hearing by such vibrations in the air or other medium.

The vibrations of matter in the air are the precursors to sound.

[Madmartigan 0]

Sound is the vibration of matter, as perceived by the sense of hearing. Sound is not actually the vibration of said matter, but the end result of your ear translating the vibrations. Therefore sound would be a perception. Fucking learn your shit before you try to pull your degree on me.

sound - The sensation stimulated in the organs of hearing by such vibrations in the air or other medium.

The vibrations of matter in the air are the precursors to sound.

Are you fucking kidding me? Go look up some bullshit in google and copy and paste it into your reply. I know exactly what I'm talking about you moron. If energy is lost to create sound, it most certainly is not a perception. You're talking about hearing something, not the actual attribute of sound. Assuming you have a degree, what is it in...general studies???? right. Don't fucking talk to me about anything technical...I didn't spend as much time and money as I did studying to waste words with a self righteous atheist/agnostic

[projectmayhem9 8]

Are you fucking kidding me? Go look up some bullshit in google and copy and paste it into your reply. I know exactly what I'm talking about you moron. If energy is lost to create sound, it most certainly is not a perception. You're talking about hearing something, not the actual attribute of sound. Assuming you have a degree, what is it in...general studies???? right. Don't fucking talk to me about anything technical...I didn't spend as much time and money as I did studying to waste words with a self righteous atheist/agnostic

kthxbai.

[Polis 0]

Oh wow, you must be an engineer because you can't write worth a damn.

I know what I am talking about also; sound is the perception of vibrations transmitted through a solid, liquid or a gas. Hearing something is an action and what you hear is the sound. The sound is the translation of the vibrations by the sense organs in the ear. That is what sound is. What you are talking about is the vibrations..k thx.

Look up the fucking definition of sound even..I am right you are wrong. Deal with it please.

SOUND:

1. Simple definition: Sound is the perception of vibrations stimulating the ear

2. Scientific definition of sound: sound is a periodic disturbance in fluids density, or in the elastic strain of a solid, generated by a vibrating object. These waves (vibrations) propagate in two basic ways: longitudinal waves and transverse waves.

1. The peceived object occasioned by the impulse or vibration of a material substance affecting the ear; a sensation or perception of the mind received through the ear, and produced by the impulse or vibration of the air or other medium with which the ear is in contact; the effect of an impression made on the organs of hearing by an impulse or vibration of the air caused by a collision of bodies, or by other means; noise; report; as, the sound of a drum; the sound of the human voice; a horrid sound; a charming sound; a sharp, high, or shrill sound.

You my friend are mistaking sound for the vibrational waves and making yourself look like an idiot in the process. It is actually a common misconception among the uneducated. Since you have spent so much time and money on your schooling, I just naturally assumed you would have known something as minute as this. I also conclude that if someone can be stupid enough to mistake the vibrations in a medium for sound (foh and madmartigan), how can we trust their views on religion and god or anything I have put forth? Clearly they like to just say whatever they want without backing any of it up, much like their religion does. Sorry, you lose.

Also no one has addressed this quote, "As a truly omnipotent and good being, God could create beings with true freedom over God. Furthermore, God would voluntarily do so because "the greatest good ... which can be done for a being, greater than anything else that one can do for it, is to be truly free."

[Madmartigan 0]

You are the typical anti everything guy. If you consider me dropping out of this shit tossing war losing, then by all means, you are the winner of this "debate." Let me bow before you almighty lord of arguing. You know I tried to give you respect, I didn't give you crap about a thing you said. But you want to attempt to insult my intelligence after claiming you are mature enough to talk about something like this. Seriously, get a life instead of trying to start shit with people on the internet. You weight what, 120lbs? So if you were ever to see me in person you would quiver and probably wouldn't have the balls to say anything. But no, you can hide behind your moniter where every action you take has no consequence. Keep up the arrogant act, it will get you very far, especially outside of your computer

[Rizan 0]

this is why i don't like these threads, if people want to have beliefs, who are you to infringe upon them, even if you think they are nuts. All it ever ends up being is a flame war.

[Polis 0]

You are the typical anti everything guy. If you consider me dropping out of this shit tossing war losing, then by all means, you are the winner of this "debate." Let me bow before you almighty lord of arguing. You know I tried to give you respect, I didn't give you crap about a thing you said. But you want to attempt to insult my intelligence after claiming you are mature enough to talk about something like this. Seriously, get a life instead of trying to start shit with people on the internet. You weight what, 120lbs? So if you were ever to see me in person you would quiver and probably wouldn't have the balls to say anything. But no, you can hide behind your moniter where every action you take has no consequence. Keep up the arrogant act, it will get you very far, especially outside of your computer

Well hopefully you took out of this discussion a better understanding of what sound actually is. On the bright side, its nice having these posts because you see some people who have been relatively inactive doing a bit of posting

Madmartigan, just so you know I did want to have a friendly debate. However, I took slight offense to this "and your view of omnipotence is so misinterpreted by the way you think God and Free will can't coexist." Guess it sent me off on a tangent.

Oh, and I do want to be swayed. I wish I could believe in religion. It must be nice knowing you are going to go somewhere after you die. It must be even better knowing your life has a higher purpose. I wish I could feel these things. I want to hear an outstanding argument from someone completely convincing me about any god. I want something to believe in.

[w33D.Ross 2]

didnt we have this problem on the last thread?

but when we were done, the guy was never heard from again.... hmmmm

[Polis 0]

didnt we have this problem on the last thread?

but when we were done, the guy was never heard from again.... hmmmm

It's because I destroy people with my general studies/arts degree. I am glad Foh had what it takes to stick around though.

PS. How do you guys know god isn't willing me to denounce christianty? Perhaps it is the wrong path and he is trying to speak through me to send you down the right one!

[w33D.Ross 2]

PS. How do you guys know god isn't willing me to denounce christianty? Perhaps it is the wrong path and he is trying to speak through me to send you down the right one!

SATANISM FTW!!!!

i used to be a satanist (private) for about three years, but i realised that there wasnt a god, nor was there a satan. so there was no battle.

but my satanist does come out and speaks out against Christianity.

[Madmartigan 0]

Well Polis, I apologize for adding to the flame war. I don't necessarily follow religion, I was raised catholic, but I'm far form a strict follower. I think the problem with this debate is the same problem with religion. Whatever is cemented in your subconcious from when you are young is hard to get rid of. It makes you think the way you do, at least I find my thoughts are influenced by my upbringing, if only slightly. My life has taught me to took at things and take them to mean there is a god. Maybe yours has taught you otherwise. It usually takes a life altering event for someones vantages to change. Again, I apologize for helping take the civility out of this discussion. I'm sure we will butt heads again soon

[Polis 0]

We all know that a discussion on religion will never really have an outcome where anyone is swayed. It is much too biased. I like talking about it though..it something that interests me greatly. So thank you guys for arguing with me about it, sorry we couldn't come up with anything productive. Maybe we can steer it in a positive direction again. Anyone care to address the quote I posted previously?

PS. I am currently a second year student pursuing a CS (I plan to specialize in Ruby because it is l33t) degree with a major in business. I believe being able to market yourself is a good tool for anyone in any industry to have, hence my choice of a major.

[Øpiate 30]

didnt we have this problem on the last thread?

but when we were done, the guy was never heard from again.... hmmmm

I'm tired of seeing this one come up, too. This is not an argument that has an end. It definitely doesn't help when people start making personal insults and attacking each other's intelligence for their beliefs/lack thereof.

[UltimateOreo 145]

I know this may seems stupid, but I remember an episode of Futurama that really made me think, and it answers your qoute also-

If you do too much, people will be dependant on you, and if you do too little, people will lose faith. When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

[Contract Killer 24]

Thought this was somewhat appropriate, think about it.