Discuss this quote

[Guest Fohacidal]

kthxbai.

Go away

Also no one has addressed this quote, "As a truly omnipotent and good being, God could create beings with true freedom over God. Furthermore, God would voluntarily do so because "the greatest good ... which can be done for a being, greater than anything else that one can do for it, is to be truly free."

No matter what I say in defense of christianity you will still refute it, again, the quote itself is a paradox, and your arguments revolve around them, no sense in arguing because it can go both ways.

SATANISM FTW!!!!

i used to be a satanist (private) for about three years, but i realised that there wasnt a god, nor was there a satan. so there was no battle.

but my satanist does come out and speaks out against Christianity.

Your kidding right?

[Kelso 4]

I too sometimes doubt God and religion in itself. I always feel some things in Christianity are just created so it all makes sense. Satan for example, he's the evil that creeps into people, but I remember my mom saying it's like Satan can only be in one place at one time while God can be everywhere at one time... Now I think about if God is so powerful, why can't he just override the evil that creeps into people? But then I remember that evil is everywhere thanks to influence. Then I thought about Slayer, and the 3 fans that drugged, raped, and killed a girl in order for a sacrifice to Satan. That is damned influential considering Slayer is Satanist (regardless of whatever they say), and it makes sense that Satan would pick influential people to spread evil, which can be done easily through the music industry. I was thinking about it and I remember reading that Jimi Hendrix once said it feels like there's someone else in his body with him and I hear things similar to that on the radio. Jimi Hendrix, everyone remembers him and is influential. The rock/metal and their sub-genres seem to have lots of popular artists like Slayer (maybe not to the same degree) that have all the subliminal message stuff etc etc., and the popular artists seem to do exactly what people like.

When I think of the age group Slayer appeals to, I think of teenagers. The age group which is most susceptible to influence. I figure that adds up but there's lots of stuff that doesn't... I've just come to the conclusion that the Bible is twisted (I don't mean evil) and that no time soon will humanity be able to know what really happened.

[w33D.Ross 2]

Your kidding right?

kidding about what?

and i have that coexist as a bumper sticker on my car.

its a lil different tho let me find a pic of it.

[Polis 0]

Foh, I would like to talk to you about sound. What do you have to say about what you said earlier?

[Guest Fohacidal]

Foh, I would like to talk to you about sound. What do you have to say about what you said earlier?

Sound is essentially created through vibrations in the air, without air there is no sound, and to create those vibrations (different frequencies and amplitudes) you need energy, which is created and lost in heat. Hearing sound isnt something we perceive it just to be a sound, hearing sound is because of the laws of physics, the vibrations go into our ear drums, which vibrate and send signals to the brain, those signals are what we hear, we then PERCEIVE them to be a certain sound to something, which is not the same as perceiving sound to begin with.

[w33D.Ross 2]

off topic. stay on religion.

and try to minimize the flames.

[Polis 0]

Sound is essentially created through vibrations in the air, without air there is no sound, and to create those vibrations (different frequencies and amplitudes) you need energy, which is created and lost in heat. Hearing sound isnt something we perceive it just to be a sound, hearing sound is because of the laws of physics, the vibrations go into our ear drums, which vibrate and send signals to the brain, those signals are what we hear, we then PERCEIVE them to be a certain sound to something, which is not the same as perceiving sound to begin with.

Just because you say this doesn't make it so. You can consult any scholarly journal, text or anything pertaining to sound and they will all tell you sound is the perception of the waves carried through a medium such as a solid, solid liquid or gas caused by a vibrating object. The waves are completely different than what sound is. I am not trying to discuss with you what sound is, because it is not a topic for debate. I am telling you what sound is right now. By arguing with me about it when all you have heard is probably what your 11th grade science teacher has told you, makes you ignorant. SOUND IS THE PERCEPTION OF THE VIBRATIONAL WAVES CAUSED BY AN OBJECT WHICH IS VIBRATING. IT IS THE PERCEPTION OF THE VIBRATIONAL WAVES OF WHICH YOUR SENSE ORGANS IN YOUR EAR HAVE TRANSLATED. This is what it is. Accept it already.

Sound is not an object or waves. The waves are just that, waves. They are not the sound. Sound is a perception. I am serious Foh, look it up instead of just saying whatever you want about it.

Essentially if a tree falls in the woods, it makes no sound if no one is around to hear it. This is because all that is going around in the air is the vibrational waves right? You either have the waves or the sound in this isntance Foh..which is it? Are you saying that sound is the waves, or that it is still making the sound without something around to hear it? It is not actually making that crashing sound you hear...it is just sending out a bunch of force through the air causing mass to vibrate. It isn't actually making the SOUND, which is the perception of the vibrational waves! Yet, if we were around the tree when it has fallen, we would PERCEIVE the mass in the air vibrating through our sense organs in our ear...THUS CAUSING US TO PERCEIVE THE SOUND. Does this make things clearer for you Foh?

Btw, I am done arguing this. I have provided clear evidence yet you still want to argue about it. If you cannot comprehend this nor accept it, then you are truly an idiot.

[Waylon 2]

We (well at least I) don't try to prove God. Who started this and all the other threads about there being no God? What's the point? If you somehow get someone to believe there is no God with your arguments, then they didn't deserve to believe in him in the first place. What a waste of time.

Why wouldn't I be on the forums? We don't really talk about CS:S here (example: this thread) and I have many friends here. I'm just saying, why do you (atheists, in general) try to disprove God? Okay, fine you don't believe he exists, that's it. No need to start arguments with those that do believe, because everyone knows these arguments NEVER end up getting anywhere and end up pointless.

its the same as preachers preaching to non-believers or one from another religion. Its called communication which I understand some cannot handle properly. Its called a discussion and people putting out there what they believe. Its not to start conflict but to share ones' thought. Like I said, I don't disbelieve in god, I just don't believe in organized religion.

[UltimateOreo 145]

The main method of persuasion, other than proof, is logic, and that is the exact reason why this thread will never get anywhere, or cause any sudden revelations. There is no logic or undeniable proof in religion, it is all based on the honor system, either you believe it, or you don't. I would also like to add that every situation dealing with religion is biased, so don't say it isn't. Either you believe in a God, or you don't, and if you are arguing with someone who believes in the opposite of you on religion, you will be trying to spread your beliefs/persuade the other person to also take on your beliefs, hence the term bias. If you aren't trying to spread your beliefs, either you aren't in the conversation, or you don't truly believe in/trust your standpoint on religion.

[Polis 0]

I think the point of this thread got way off track. I am not trying to disprove god. I believe a god or something like it exists. I want to discuss the fact that evil exists yet christians still maintain god is supremely good. On top of this their only real rebuttle is the fact that evil comes from a human beings Free Will. Then I went on to say that Free Will cannot exist when there is a truly omnipotent being. I am not saying whether or not I believe in Free Will. I really don't know so I won't say.

I just want to know why christians maintain that their god is supremely good. Why? It makes 100% more sense to me that god takes pleasure in seeing us act and choose. I think god is both supremely good and supremely evil. Thats just my opinion.

[w33D.Ross 2]

i remember back in the day my friend told me that "God wants us to choose Him" if it is force upon then its not really love and gratitude, its slavery. but iff givin the choice, and you still accept God you have your spot in heaven. so you have to earn God's Grace.

[Polis 0]

i remember back in the day my friend told me that "God wants us to choose Him" if it is force upon then its not really love and gratitude, its slavery. but iff givin the choice, and you still accept God you have your spot in heaven. so you have to earn God's Grace.

That is where I believe this quote comes into play, "As a truly omnipotent and good being, God could create beings with true freedom over God. Furthermore, God would voluntarily do so because "the greatest good ... which can be done for a being, greater than anything else that one can do for it, is to be truly free."

[projectmayhem9 8]

Go away

No you?

And yeah in that last topic you and I pwned SilentHorror Ross.

[TimeToDie 39]

off topic. stay on religion.

and try to minimize the flames.

And you are? Not a JCS or leader, I think we got a tough fag on our hands.

[projectmayhem9 8]

Ross isn't gay....

[w33D.Ross 2]

1. im not gay, so get your shit straight.

2. i dont need to be a leader to ask people to stay on topic.

3. yes, indeed we did pwn silenthorror, like we did to this M guy.

4. timetodie, you need to relax and accept some BUTTSECKS 8===D (_(_|

[Guest Fohacidal]

The main method of persuasion, other than proof, is logic, and that is the exact reason why this thread will never get anywhere, or cause any sudden revelations. There is no logic or undeniable proof in religion, it is all based on the honor system, either you believe it, or you don't. I would also like to add that every situation dealing with religion is biased, so don't say it isn't. Either you believe in a God, or you don't, and if you are arguing with someone who believes in the opposite of you on religion, you will be trying to spread your beliefs/persuade the other person to also take on your beliefs, hence the term bias. If you aren't trying to spread your beliefs, either you aren't in the conversation, or you don't truly believe in/trust your standpoint on religion.

Its not always bias, but this is usually the case.

I think the point of this thread got way off track. I am not trying to disprove god. I believe a god or something like it exists. I want to discuss the fact that evil exists yet christians still maintain god is supremely good. On top of this their only real rebuttle is the fact that evil comes from a human beings Free Will. Then I went on to say that Free Will cannot exist when there is a truly omnipotent being. I am not saying whether or not I believe in Free Will. I really don't know so I won't say.

I just want to know why christians maintain that their god is supremely good. Why? It makes 100% more sense to me that god takes pleasure in seeing us act and choose. I think god is both supremely good and supremely evil. Thats just my opinion.

Again, paradox's, your not supporting your argument in any way, basically your argument is about as mute as which came first, the chicken or the egg. You didnt even support your argument on sound, you just repeated what you said three times ago, and then added in my tree riddle, when the point is you dont need to be somewhere for something to exist, you hear sound because signals are transfered to your head, not because something happens and boom you hear it.

Either way, Im not leaving this argument, it will only get good until you say something original, and not replications of another man's opinions (IE-your atheistic lover boy who you keep quoting)

[TimeToDie 39]

1. im not gay, so get your shit straight.

2. i dont need to be a leader to ask people to stay on topic.

3. yes, indeed we did pwn silenthorror, like we did to this M guy.

4. timetodie, you need to relax and accept some BUTTSECKS 8===D (_(_|

I love you Ross. (No Homo)

[Polis 0]

Its not always bias, but this is usually the case.

Again, paradox's, your not supporting your argument in any way, basically your argument is about as mute as which came first, the chicken or the egg. You didnt even support your argument on sound, you just repeated what you said three times ago, and then added in my tree riddle, when the point is you dont need to be somewhere for something to exist, you hear sound because signals are transfered to your head, not because something happens and boom you hear it.

Either way, Im not leaving this argument, it will only get good until you say something original, and not replications of another man's opinions (IE-your atheistic lover boy who you keep quoting)

This is quite fucking hilarious. I wasn't discussing the metaphysical aspect to the tree falling in the forest bit. I was discussing what sound is exactly. Your definition of sound is incorrect. Sound is a perception. Of course I supported my argument on sound. I posted direct quotations of definitions. That is supporting evidence. You on the other hand Foh keep spouting of bullshit with no evidence. I will go through this entire thread and quote every last line of shit you have said to prove my point if I have to.

I know how hearing works my friend. I also know what sound is. I described it perfectly to you...but you don't seem to understand. Just so you know, all of your beliefs were at one time someones before you. So every bit of knowledge and every belief you had once belonged to someone else. So stop criticizing me when you yourself have never had an original thought.

Maybe you don't understand what perception is? Do you? Honestly, what part of my point don't you understand? Here is a question to everyone else...do you understand what I am saying? Am I just speaking gibberish or something...or is Foh really as stupid as he appears? I guess I could ascribe to the old Descartian postulation that I am speaking in a "secret" language and what I think I am saying is in actuality different from what you guys are reading. Who knows.

[Polis 0]

I dont go to sunday school, and nice bias there, he attacked mainly attacked the institution of the Danish Church, your contorting it to christianity in general, regardless of what he said, he was a close minded philosopher, a truly open minded person would embrace both science and religion.

I was just about to say this, saying sound is a perception is one of the dumbest things Iv heard in my lifetime.

Lul, this would have to be one of the stupidest things I have ever read. Just thought I would reiterate it. I guess every scholarly definition of sound and every single dictionary and encyclopedia would be the dumbest thing you have ever read. Oh yes..quite dumb. Well, you must be so much smarterer then all of these peoplez. You must be so much more intelligent than me also. I can really tell from your posts...you come off as so smart.

PS. Sound doesn't exist if you are not around to hear it. The vibrational waves do of course, but sound doesn't since it is a perception. Case fucking closed. Please, someone else come in and tell Foh whats what. He is starting to lose all credibility. I like to think my arguments are so above Foh's realm of understanding that he just doesn't comprehend them. I'm not saying they are the most deep and fantastic thing ever...I am just saying Foh is god damn stupid.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C005705/Engl...ound/sound2.htm

[Waylon 2]

FOH GOT PWNED!

[w33D.Ross 2]

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YOU JUST GOT ROXZORD!!!!!!! BIATCH!!!!!!! MAJOR UBER PWNAGE!!!!!11!111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FOH GOT BLOWN OUT THE WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</div>

[TimeToDie 39]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU JUST GOT ROXZORD!!!!!!! BIATCH!!!!!!! MAJOR UBER PWNAGE!!!!!11!111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FOH GOT BLOWN OUT THE WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice spam cock boy.

[Guest Fohacidal]

This is quite fucking hilarious. I wasn't discussing the metaphysical aspect to the tree falling in the forest bit. I was discussing what sound is exactly. Your definition of sound is incorrect. Sound is a perception. Of course I supported my argument on sound. I posted direct quotations of definitions. That is supporting evidence. You on the other hand Foh keep spouting of bullshit with no evidence. I will go through this entire thread and quote every last line of shit you have said to prove my point if I have to.

I know how hearing works my friend. I also know what sound is. I described it perfectly to you...but you don't seem to understand. Just so you know, all of your beliefs were at one time someones before you. So every bit of knowledge and every belief you had once belonged to someone else. So stop criticizing me when you yourself have never had an original thought.

Maybe you don't understand what perception is? Do you? Honestly, what part of my point don't you understand? Here is a question to everyone else...do you understand what I am saying? Am I just speaking gibberish or something...or is Foh really as stupid as he appears? I guess I could ascribe to the old Descartian postulation that I am speaking in a "secret" language and what I think I am saying is in actuality different from what you guys are reading. Who knows.

Lul, this would have to be one of the stupidest things I have ever read. Just thought I would reiterate it. I guess every scholarly definition of sound and every single dictionary and encyclopedia would be the dumbest thing you have ever read. Oh yes..quite dumb. Well, you must be so much smarterer then all of these peoplez. You must be so much more intelligent than me also. I can really tell from your posts...you come off as so smart.

PS. Sound doesn't exist if you are not around to hear it. The vibrational waves do of course, but sound doesn't since it is a perception. Case fucking closed. Please, someone else come in and tell Foh whats what. He is starting to lose all credibility. I like to think my arguments are so above Foh's realm of understanding that he just doesn't comprehend them. I'm not saying they are the most deep and fantastic thing ever...I am just saying Foh is god damn stupid.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C005705/Engl...ound/sound2.htm

I tried to lead a civil argument, but instead you show your just a pompous asshole who takes pride in beating down people who are younger then him, and probably not as knowledgeable as you in many topics. I however will not just undermine my beliefs and my arguments in this topic because a ton of assholes think its funny that only one person will stand for what he says. I see from the other posts that you have scared other people out of this clan, even madmartigan lleft the discussion...

Well you know what Polis, screw you pal, Im staying right here and Ill take everything you got you self righteous, self proclaimed "infallible" and intolerant JCS,

[Polis 0]

I'm tolerant, you don't see me banning you or anything do you? I'm sorry if I am just vocal. I haven't freaked out on you, I have just called you out on an error that you refused to admit. I'm sorry if I am picking on you. You are right, you are not as experienced as me but you are well on your way. I don't want you to go anywhere, I just wanted you to admit your mistake. I'm sorry if I wasn't as subtle as you in calling out the assholish intelligence slamming card...but you know you did it also. You were just a little more subtler about it than I was.

MadMartigan was not apart of the clan, nor did it seem like he took any steps to join. If you noticed, we also left on peaceful terms.

Also I know I am fallible. In fact, I will be the first to admit that my demeanour and big head are my biggest faults.