Well Fuck

[Dyscivist 5686]

To a point, it does.

IQ tests are also a better predictor of workplace performance than education level or previous experience, on the aggregate.

Circumstance is a far more substantial determinant of someone's future, though, which is kind of more to the point.

What do you base this assertion on?

I should elaborate. I agree with you to an extent. Someone who lives in some shitty African country and has no opportunities or access to information has their environment as the major determining factor in the outcome of their life. The relative wealth of a U.S. citizen to to another U.S. citizen is far less important, though, because access to information, nourishment and the like are not likely to be largely inhibited based on their environment unless they're literally homeless or something. In that circumstance I'd say one's innate abilities are far more important.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Dyscivist

[Dojima 7619]

IQ tests are also a better predictor of workplace performance than education level or previous experience, on the aggregate.

Indeed.

What do you base this assertion on?

The same reasons you mentioned earlier. People are not offered the same opportunities based on their circumstances, ethnicity, contacts, and otherwise. It's absolutely possible to overcome a shitty situation, especially if you're intelligent, but simply because of the nature of what's required to be done or happen, it's far more likely that someone well-off and dumb ends up in a fine situation, and someone smart and unfortunate stays about where they started.

[Oreo 2073]

To a point, it does.

IQ tests are also a better predictor of workplace performance than education level or previous experience, on the aggregate.

Circumstance is a far more substantial determinant of someone's future, though, which is kind of more to the point.

What do you base this assertion on?

I should elaborate. I agree with you to an extent. Someone who lives in some shitty African country and has no opportunities or access to information has their environment as the major determining factor in the outcome of their life. The relative wealth of a U.S. citizen to to another U.S. citizen is far less important, though, because access to information, nourishment and the like are not likely to be largely inhibited based on their environment unless they're literally homeless or something. In that circumstance I'd say one's innate abilities are far more important.

I have to agree with Dysc on this. In extreme cases, yes, it is a major determining factor. However, just because you're born into poverty doesn't mean you can't drag yourself out of it or at least better your circumstances. Education is free up until college and then there is the low costs of a community college as well as scholarship opportunities. Although one could attribute upbringing as a influence, it is very possible to move up the ladder. I would even go so far as to argue it's easier now than it was before with the endless abilities that technology brings to us not only educational but also in terms of ingenuity.

[Siesan 1802]

To a point, it does.

IQ tests are also a better predictor of workplace performance than education level or previous experience, on the aggregate.

Circumstance is a far more substantial determinant of someone's future, though, which is kind of more to the point.

What do you base this assertion on?

I should elaborate. I agree with you to an extent. Someone who lives in some shitty African country and has no opportunities or access to information has their environment as the major determining factor in the outcome of their life. The relative wealth of a U.S. citizen to to another U.S. citizen is far less important, though, because access to information, nourishment and the like are not likely to be largely inhibited based on their environment unless they're literally homeless or something. In that circumstance I'd say one's innate abilities are far more important.

I have to agree with Dysc on this. In extreme cases, yes, it is a major determining factor. However, just because you're born into poverty doesn't mean you can't drag yourself out of it or at least better your circumstances. Education is free up until college and then there is the low costs of a community college as well as scholarship opportunities. Although one could attribute upbringing as a influence, it is very possible to move up the ladder. I would even go so far as to argue it's easier now than it was before with the endless abilities that technology brings to us not only educational but also in terms of ingenuity.

as i was saying before, sure anyone can do it but nobody does.

I live in a poverty ridden area, and the most common education level here is highschool drop out. They drop out because they get straight F's in their first 2 years and then get kicked out. It's not just Los Angeles or Detroit, it's pretty much most rural communities in the U.S. Dropout rates are high because people don't care about education and take it for granted, which leads to dropouts and GED's, and alot of jobs will take a college grad over a GED any day.

and of course, lots of people like to just get a job and stay in their positions instead of moving up the ranks. Sure McDonalds doesn't have very many ranks, but in businesses where there are ranks, all you have to do is move up them and take a chance with your bosses and you'll eventually hit CEO level. Not alot of people have the courage to do that, and those that do it successfully get a good payoff in the long run. That's why so much money is limited to 1%, because those are the people willing to take chances and move up, rather then sit comfortably in middle class.

[Mitch 2111]

True, but not surprising.

The only thing that really matters to me is as long as I work hard in college and finally graduate and land a decent career, I'll be making enough to live comfortably.

People need to be less concerned/rustled up about the distribution of wealth in our society, they need to realize that with hard work and effort in postsecondary education can get you places.

With how the distribution of wealth is in the economy, students finishing high school are extremely lucky if they can even afford to go to college. I myself barely had enough to go to a tech school. Some of my friends are working full time jobs to try and save money to go to college. Others have taken such huge loans that even when they finish and get a well paying job, they won't have much spending cash of their own for years because they are still paying off the loans that have collected interest. People are working extremely hard everyday and aren't getting the wages to really help them get by. An old co-worker of mine was working a full time job during the day and a part-time at night just to help make ends meet and support her kids. It's pretty fucked up out there.

I can tell you from personal experience that if you at least graduated high school, California will be able to pay a good chunk of your education expenses and allow you to loan the rest. If I hadn't received a scholarship for going the school I went to, the Californian Government would have paid for all my tuition, room and board through grants. The rest of the money I'd have to loan out + work for (other misc. living expenses). In exchange, I'm given a shot at obtaining a degree from a good institution which will place me in a fairly decent job after graduation. (I'm currently working full time in addition to taking out loans and getting scholarships + grants. I'll be in roughly 25k debt after graduation).

I can guarantee you any other high schooler who put in as much effort and work as I did @ my high school would have been able to do the same. I went to a high school with a low graduation rate as well to put that into perspective. The system isn't completely broken, if one is willing to put in the blood and sweat they'll succeed.

People need to be less concerned/rustled up about the distribution of wealth in our society, they need to realize that with hard work and effort in postsecondary education can get you places.

The problem is that no one's telling the dumb kids getting doctorates in philosophy to stop being dumb.

My college boasts a pretty high employment rate, so all the retards majoring in women studies and Russian literature think they're guaranteed a job. They don't mention that the employment rate is stacked as fuark from our huge engineering program.

That's their own fault though. I'm still pretty appalled people would go to your university for Russian/Women's Studies ROFL.

I like how people assume that

Or, strive to be smart with money, choose a good career, and invest early and often

If you even get the chance to do any of that. Hard to play the game when you are playing against a stacked deck.

What stacked deck?

There is definitely a stacked deck when you take into considerations the circumstances of your birth and how you were brought up. Everyone's socioeconomic status is different and that strongly affects where you go and how far you get in life.

To a point, it does.

IQ tests are also a better predictor of workplace performance than education level or previous experience, on the aggregate.

IQ tests != the will or motivation to do something. You can be smart as fuck, good for you but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll do shit.

Circumstance is a far more substantial determinant of someone's future, though, which is kind of more to the point.

What do you base this assertion on?

I should elaborate. I agree with you to an extent. Someone who lives in some shitty African country and has no opportunities or access to information has their environment as the major determining factor in the outcome of their life. The relative wealth of a U.S. citizen to to another U.S. citizen is far less important, though, because access to information, nourishment and the like are not likely to be largely inhibited based on their environment unless they're literally homeless or something. In that circumstance I'd say one's innate abilities are far more important.

I agree with dojima on this part. You can't completely disregard the relative wealth of a US Citizen to another US Citizen however. A family that lives paycheck to paycheck living in a one bedroom apartment in the ghetto of Los Angeles will have different goals for their kids then say a family that lives in a nice house in the nice suburbia of Los Angeles. This is just relatively comparing middle class to low class, not even considering high class. (pretty high right now, not sure if anything I said made any sense)

[Oreo 2073]

To a point, it does.

IQ tests are also a better predictor of workplace performance than education level or previous experience, on the aggregate.

Circumstance is a far more substantial determinant of someone's future, though, which is kind of more to the point.

What do you base this assertion on?

I should elaborate. I agree with you to an extent. Someone who lives in some shitty African country and has no opportunities or access to information has their environment as the major determining factor in the outcome of their life. The relative wealth of a U.S. citizen to to another U.S. citizen is far less important, though, because access to information, nourishment and the like are not likely to be largely inhibited based on their environment unless they're literally homeless or something. In that circumstance I'd say one's innate abilities are far more important.

I have to agree with Dysc on this. In extreme cases, yes, it is a major determining factor. However, just because you're born into poverty doesn't mean you can't drag yourself out of it or at least better your circumstances. Education is free up until college and then there is the low costs of a community college as well as scholarship opportunities. Although one could attribute upbringing as a influence, it is very possible to move up the ladder. I would even go so far as to argue it's easier now than it was before with the endless abilities that technology brings to us not only educational but also in terms of ingenuity.

as i was saying before, sure anyone can do it but nobody does.

I live in a poverty ridden area, and the most common education level here is highschool drop out. They drop out because they get straight F's in their first 2 years and then get kicked out. It's not just Los Angeles or Detroit, it's pretty much most rural communities in the U.S. Dropout rates are high because people don't care about education and take it for granted, which leads to dropouts and GED's, and alot of jobs will take a college grad over a GED any day.

and of course, lots of people like to just get a job and stay in their positions instead of moving up the ranks. Sure McDonalds doesn't have very many ranks, but in businesses where there are ranks, all you have to do is move up them and take a chance with your bosses and you'll eventually hit CEO level. Not alot of people have the courage to do that, and those that do it successfully get a good payoff in the long run. That's why so much money is limited to 1%, because those are the people willing to take chances and move up, rather then sit comfortably in middle class.

The reason people don't take GEDs, is because a GED doesnt give you the knowledge that a college diploma in your field will. Unfortunately this is why you see so few GED earners getting a job without a college diploma. Often times the people that dropout have issues at home, whether it be emotionally or economically. Sometimes some kids just don't get it and give up because they're either too embarrassed to seek help or like you said, just don't care. I wouldn't pin it all on the latter though, there's numerous reasons people do what they do. On a good note; dropout rates have actually been dropping recently though, which shows that things are taking a turn in some, but not all, communities.

I'm pretty sure the main reason people DON'T move up in Mcdonalds, or in any trash job, is because it actually requires more experience than a GED. Not to mention, they're not looking for CEO's in cashiers, they're probably going to look at the extremely accomplished business graduates that do the actual business part of the job. In serious jobs, it's not as simple as you think. You're vying with hundreds of others in, most of the time, extremely large corporations for just a few spots that open up very rarely. It also requires more than just intelligence, it requires people skills and other things(Which some people refer to as "emotional intelligence", but the argument whether or not EI exists is still ongoing). It's not simple, it's very hard. Often times knowing people can get you a step ahead, one of my family's friends is a VP for a big four firm and he got there through meeting one of the higher ups while still in college who eventually helped him land an internship at that very firm. He left a very favorable impression on the man and when he did contact him about the internship, the man put in a good word about him. Sometimes people are blessed with more opportunities than others and this gives them a chance at the limelight more often than others. Some fail, some succeed. And then there are those that push and push and push and eventually end up in the situation they strived to be in. Regardless of whether you're lucky enough to land in one of these situations, the decisions you make have a major effect on where you go.

(pretty high right now, not sure if anything I said made any sense)

You're fine.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Oreo

[Dyscivist 5686]

It's absolutely possible to overcome a shitty situation, especially if you're intelligent, but simply because of the nature of what's required to be done or happen, it's far more likely that someone well-off and dumb ends up in a fine situation, and someone smart and unfortunate stays about where they started.

When you consider the population of people whose situations actually provide them enough wealth to afford being idiots in relation to the vast majority of people who are in a relatively worse off position, it's not nearly as unlikely as you think, though it may not appear to be as such.

The reason you don't see intelligent people rising in droves from the poor underbelly of the U.S. isn't so much their environment as it is just the fact that poor people are, on the aggregate, less intelligent than rich people. There's a natural feedback loop that occurs as well, of course, that reinforces this.

Similarly, most sons and daughters of CEOs will at the very least not be complete fucktards, although exceptions obviously exist.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Dyscivist

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

LOL @ you GED white knights. GEDs are another casualty in the degree inflation movement. You can't even join the military with a GED alone anymore. If someone has a GED and tries to enlist, they must complete 15 college credits before they are eligible.

As a CIO, it was common practice not to hire ANYONE who had a GED regardless of post-GED credentials (BS, MBA, etc). When I saw an applicant had a GED, it told me that this person quits when they face adversity or their work performance would be substandard. Once you enter corporate America, you'll have a different perspective when your job rests in the hands of your GED employees, who have a DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF QUITTING.

By the way, in the business world we call a GED employee "good enoughs".

GED

Good

Enough

Diploma

[Siesan 1802]

The reason people don't take GEDs, is because a GED doesnt give you the knowledge that a college diploma in your field will. Unfortunately this is why you see so few GED earners getting a job without a college diploma. Often times the people that dropout have issues at home, whether it be emotionally or economically. Sometimes some kids just don't get it and give up because they're either too embarrassed to seek help or like you said, just don't care. I wouldn't pin it all on the latter though, there's numerous reasons people do what they do. On a good note; dropout rates have actually been dropping recently though, which shows that things are taking a turn in some, but not all, communities.

I'm pretty sure the main reason people DON'T move up in Mcdonalds, or in any trash job, is because it actually requires more experience than a GED. Not to mention, they're not looking for CEO's in cashiers, they're probably going to look at the extremely accomplished business graduates that do the actual business part of the job. In serious jobs, it's not as simple as you think. You're vying with hundreds of others in, most of the time, extremely large corporations for just a few spots that open up very rarely. It also requires more than just intelligence, it requires people skills and other things(Which some people refer to as "emotional intelligence", but the argument whether or not EI exists is still ongoing). It's not simple, it's very hard. Often times knowing people can get you a step ahead, one of my family's friends is a VP for a big four firm and he got there through meeting one of the higher ups while still in college who eventually helped him land an internship at that very firm. He left a very favorable impression on the man and when he did contact him about the internship, the man put in a good word about him. Sometimes people are blessed with more opportunities than others and this gives them a chance at the limelight more often than others. Some fail, some succeed. And then there are those that push and push and push and eventually end up in the situation they strived to be in. Regardless of whether you're lucky enough to land in one of these situations, the decisions you make have a major effect on where you go.

I agree. Getting up the job chain is pretty hard for the average joe, and the only way to ascend is to be more than an average Joe. However, i feel that the problem lies in part with the fact that people become the average joe, and then stay there because it's comfortable. Maybe the intimidation of competition is what drives people away from these kinds of big jobs, and i would guess this would lead to less and less people attempting to get these jobs, and just staying at a comfortable level with a steady income.

Back in France pre-revolution, it really was impossible to move up there. You where either part of the 90% poor class, or up in the 20% upper class. We're starting to see more of that here in the states. It's turning into one of those things where you're either really rich, or really poor. The Middle Class in the U.S has shrunk, and because of things like section 8 housing and welfare, alot of the poverty is comfortable at poverty because everything is given to them by the government (food, housing, water, electricity, internet, ect) This does not count the poor poor (bums in the streets of NYC, ect) So if tax dollars are going to the poor, and the poor for the most part aren't paying tax dollars, it's only natural in that situation that the rich would have so much of the nations finances.

The People who could be middle class aren't, because they want to live off the government instead of making the effort to get higher, even though they are gonna have to work harder than someone in privilege to get there. Yeah it's not fair, but if you where rich and you had a kid, wouldn't you want your kid to live easy with good money in his pockets if he was responsible enough for it?

Now, for those people saying we should "steal from the rich", that's absurd. The rich pay more tax dollars to the government, and some of those tax dollars go to supporting the poor. food stamps don't really give a poor person any of the nations wealth.

[JFK 546]

Similarly, most sons and daughters of CEOs will at the very least not be complete fucktards, although exceptions obviously exist.

You mean like this?

[Joscal 339]

LOL @ you GED white knights. GEDs are another casualty in the degree inflation movement. You can't even join the military with a GED alone anymore. If someone has a GED and tries to enlist, they must complete 15 college credits before they are eligible.

As a CIO, it was common practice not to hire ANYONE who had a GED regardless of post-GED credentials (BS, MBA, etc). When I saw an applicant had a GED, it told me that this person quits when they face adversity or their work performance would be substandard. Once you enter corporate America, you'll have a different perspective when your job rests in the hands of your GED employees, who have a DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF QUITTING.

By the way, in the business world we call a GED employee "good enoughs".

GED

Good

Enough

Diploma

I feel if you were to pass over all BS holders because they hold a GED would be an oversight. Especially if they completed their BS in a timley fashion.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

LOL @ you GED white knights. GEDs are another casualty in the degree inflation movement. You can't even join the military with a GED alone anymore. If someone has a GED and tries to enlist, they must complete 15 college credits before they are eligible.

As a CIO, it was common practice not to hire ANYONE who had a GED regardless of post-GED credentials (BS, MBA, etc). When I saw an applicant had a GED, it told me that this person quits when they face adversity or their work performance would be substandard. Once you enter corporate America, you'll have a different perspective when your job rests in the hands of your GED employees, who have a DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF QUITTING.

By the way, in the business world we call a GED employee "good enoughs".

GED

Good

Enough

Diploma

I feel if you were to pass over all BS holders because they hold a GED would be an oversight. Especially if they completed their BS in a timely fashion.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I FEEL a GED is substandard and basically cheating. A high school degree is the foundation on which a person who pursues higher education builds upon. If you have a poor foundation...a "substandard" foundation...its going to be a bad overall product.

Lets think critically about this. Try to remove all the bias from this debate for one second. Are you actually insinuating someone can take a 4 HOUR test to make up for 4 YEARS of high school? If that's your position, then why isn't there an equivalent of a GED for a BS/BA degree?

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Rock:

[media=]

Edited April 6, 2013 by ChosenOne2000

[Super Novacaine 2228]

People need to be less concerned/rustled up about the distribution of wealth in our society, they need to realize that with hard work and effort in postsecondary education can get you places.

The problem is that no one's telling the dumb kids getting doctorates in philosophy to stop being dumb.

My college boasts a pretty high employment rate, so all the retards majoring in women studies and Russian literature think they're guaranteed a job. They don't mention that the employment rate is stacked as fuark from our huge engineering program.

That's their own fault though. I'm still pretty appalled people would go to your university for Russian/Women's Studies ROFL.

Hence the

retards

[Oreo 2073]

LOL @ you GED white knights. GEDs are another casualty in the degree inflation movement. You can't even join the military with a GED alone anymore. If someone has a GED and tries to enlist, they must complete 15 college credits before they are eligible.

As a CIO, it was common practice not to hire ANYONE who had a GED regardless of post-GED credentials (BS, MBA, etc). When I saw an applicant had a GED, it told me that this person quits when they face adversity or their work performance would be substandard. Once you enter corporate America, you'll have a different perspective when your job rests in the hands of your GED employees, who have a DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF QUITTING.

By the way, in the business world we call a GED employee "good enoughs".

GED

Good

Enough

Diploma

I feel if you were to pass over all BS holders because they hold a GED would be an oversight. Especially if they completed their BS in a timely fashion.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I FEEL a GED is substandard and basically cheating. A high school degree is the foundation on which a person who pursues higher education builds upon. If you have a poor foundation...a "substandard" foundation...its going to be a bad overall product.

Lets think critically about this. Try to remove all the bias from this debate for one second. Are you actually insinuating someone can take a 4 HOUR test to make up for 4 YEARS of high school? If that's your position, then why isn't there an equivalent of a GED for a BS/BA degree?

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Rock:

[media=]

I agree with your view but only on certain circumstances. Whats your opinion of those that want to finish high school but couldn't and had to get a GED due to an issue with their family/lives?

Also to add a twist, could one not argue that due to the different styles of education in highschool compared to college(General studies vs a specific study) that grabbing an early GED and going to CC for the first two years would be more benefical than say finishing all four years of school? Especially in situations where the Academia is not that great at the school they left. Obviously there would be some bad sides to this, such as if you wanted to go into medical studies and the CC somewhat inhibited you from getting the most out of a pre-med program or laws in certain states barring GED test taking until 18.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Oreo

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

LOL @ you GED white knights. GEDs are another casualty in the degree inflation movement. You can't even join the military with a GED alone anymore. If someone has a GED and tries to enlist, they must complete 15 college credits before they are eligible.

As a CIO, it was common practice not to hire ANYONE who had a GED regardless of post-GED credentials (BS, MBA, etc). When I saw an applicant had a GED, it told me that this person quits when they face adversity or their work performance would be substandard. Once you enter corporate America, you'll have a different perspective when your job rests in the hands of your GED employees, who have a DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF QUITTING.

By the way, in the business world we call a GED employee "good enoughs".

GED

Good

Enough

Diploma

I feel if you were to pass over all BS holders because they hold a GED would be an oversight. Especially if they completed their BS in a timely fashion.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I FEEL a GED is substandard and basically cheating. A high school degree is the foundation on which a person who pursues higher education builds upon. If you have a poor foundation...a "substandard" foundation...its going to be a bad overall product.

Lets think critically about this. Try to remove all the bias from this debate for one second. Are you actually insinuating someone can take a 4 HOUR test to make up for 4 YEARS of high school? If that's your position, then why isn't there an equivalent of a GED for a BS/BA degree?

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Rock:

[media=]

I agree with your view but only on certain circumstances. Whats your opinion of those that want to finish high school but couldn't and had to get a GED due to an issue with their family/lives?

Also to add a twist, could one not argue that due to the different styles of education in highschool compared to college(General studies vs a specific study) that grabbing an early GED and going to CC for the first two years would be more benefical than say finishing all four years of school? Especially in situations where the Academia is not that great at the school they left. Obviously there would be some bad sides to this, such as if you wanted to go into medical studies and the CC somewhat inhibited you from getting the most out of a pre-med program or laws in certain states barring GED test taking until 18.

Family hardships occur, it happens...I got. I have no problem seeing a 19 or in some cases a 20 year old senior in high school. If the student had to work during the day to support his/her family, cool....they can attend night high school or an adult high school (yes they exist).

I'm just addressing academics and long term job outlook. We haven't even scratched the surface on their lack of social development compared to their peers that had 1-4 more years of sociological maturity.

Honestly, if someone weighed the pros and cons of a GED vs a high school diploma...it wouldn't be close.

Edited April 6, 2013 by ChosenOne2000

[Joscal 339]

LOL @ you GED white knights. GEDs are another casualty in the degree inflation movement. You can't even join the military with a GED alone anymore. If someone has a GED and tries to enlist, they must complete 15 college credits before they are eligible.

As a CIO, it was common practice not to hire ANYONE who had a GED regardless of post-GED credentials (BS, MBA, etc). When I saw an applicant had a GED, it told me that this person quits when they face adversity or their work performance would be substandard. Once you enter corporate America, you'll have a different perspective when your job rests in the hands of your GED employees, who have a DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF QUITTING.

By the way, in the business world we call a GED employee "good enoughs".

GED

Good

Enough

Diploma

I feel if you were to pass over all BS holders because they hold a GED would be an oversight. Especially if they completed their BS in a timely fashion.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I FEEL a GED is substandard and basically cheating. A high school degree is the foundation on which a person who pursues higher education builds upon. If you have a poor foundation...a "substandard" foundation...its going to be a bad overall product.

Lets think critically about this. Try to remove all the bias from this debate for one second. Are you actually insinuating someone can take a 4 HOUR test to make up for 4 YEARS of high school? If that's your position, then why isn't there an equivalent of a GED for a BS/BA degree?

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Rock:

[media=]

I agree with your view but only on certain circumstances. Whats your opinion of those that want to finish high school but couldn't and had to get a GED due to an issue with their family/lives?

Also to add a twist, could one not argue that due to the different styles of education in highschool compared to college(General studies vs a specific study) that grabbing an early GED and going to CC for the first two years would be more benefical than say finishing all four years of school? Especially in situations where the Academia is not that great at the school they left. Obviously there would be some bad sides to this, such as if you wanted to go into medical studies and the CC somewhat inhibited you from getting the most out of a pre-med program or laws in certain states barring GED test taking until 18.

Family hardships occur, it happens...I got. I have no problem seeing a 19 or in some cases a 20 year old senior in high school. If the student had to work during the day to support his/her family, cool....they can attend night high school or an adult high school (yes they exist).

I'm just addressing academics and long term job outlook. We haven't even scratched the surface on their lack of social development compared to their peers that had 1-4 more years of sociological maturity.

Honestly, if someone weighed the pros and cons of a GED vs a high school diploma...it wouldn't be close.

The view I was giving was weighing GED vs Diploma GIVEN both people had an equivalent experience in college.

After two peers have both completed the same number of undergraduate courses in the same frame of time why does it matter who finished high school with what?

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

LOL @ you GED white knights. GEDs are another casualty in the degree inflation movement. You can't even join the military with a GED alone anymore. If someone has a GED and tries to enlist, they must complete 15 college credits before they are eligible.

As a CIO, it was common practice not to hire ANYONE who had a GED regardless of post-GED credentials (BS, MBA, etc). When I saw an applicant had a GED, it told me that this person quits when they face adversity or their work performance would be substandard. Once you enter corporate America, you'll have a different perspective when your job rests in the hands of your GED employees, who have a DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF QUITTING.

By the way, in the business world we call a GED employee "good enoughs".

GED

Good

Enough

Diploma

I feel if you were to pass over all BS holders because they hold a GED would be an oversight. Especially if they completed their BS in a timely fashion.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I FEEL a GED is substandard and basically cheating. A high school degree is the foundation on which a person who pursues higher education builds upon. If you have a poor foundation...a "substandard" foundation...its going to be a bad overall product.

Lets think critically about this. Try to remove all the bias from this debate for one second. Are you actually insinuating someone can take a 4 HOUR test to make up for 4 YEARS of high school? If that's your position, then why isn't there an equivalent of a GED for a BS/BA degree?

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Rock:

[media=]

I agree with your view but only on certain circumstances. Whats your opinion of those that want to finish high school but couldn't and had to get a GED due to an issue with their family/lives?

Also to add a twist, could one not argue that due to the different styles of education in highschool compared to college(General studies vs a specific study) that grabbing an early GED and going to CC for the first two years would be more benefical than say finishing all four years of school? Especially in situations where the Academia is not that great at the school they left. Obviously there would be some bad sides to this, such as if you wanted to go into medical studies and the CC somewhat inhibited you from getting the most out of a pre-med program or laws in certain states barring GED test taking until 18.

Family hardships occur, it happens...I got. I have no problem seeing a 19 or in some cases a 20 year old senior in high school. If the student had to work during the day to support his/her family, cool....they can attend night high school or an adult high school (yes they exist).

I'm just addressing academics and long term job outlook. We haven't even scratched the surface on their lack of social development compared to their peers that had 1-4 more years of sociological maturity.

Honestly, if someone weighed the pros and cons of a GED vs a high school diploma...it wouldn't be close.

The view I was giving was weighing GED vs Diploma GIVEN both people had an equivalent experience in college.

After two peers have both completed the same number of undergraduate courses in the same frame of time why does it matter who finished high school with what?

To employers it does. I'm not speculating. I'm speaking from experience. Think of it like a resume.

If everything about both candidates were equal:

Both had (insert grad degree with same GPA)

Both had (insert undergrad degree with same GPA)

Person #1: High School Diploma, GPA 2.5 (kinda lowish GPA)

Person #2: GED

Person #2 would not make the cut. Person #2 will have this process repeat itself anytime he/she is up for a job w/ at least one other possible candidate who has a high school degree.

[Super Novacaine 2228]

To employers it does. I'm not speculating. I'm speaking from experience. Think of it like a resume.

If everything about both candidates were equal:

Both had (insert grad degree with same GPA)

Both had (insert undergrad degree with same GPA)

Person #1: High School Diploma, GPA 2.5 (kinda lowish GPA)

Person #2: GED

Person #2 would not make the cut. Person #2 will have this process repeat itself anytime he/she is up for a job w/ at least one other possible candidate who has a high school degree.

Do people really put that they have a highschool diploma or GED on a resume? If you have your college degree, I don't know why you would include it.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

To employers it does. I'm not speculating. I'm speaking from experience. Think of it like a resume.

If everything about both candidates were equal:

Both had (insert grad degree with same GPA)

Both had (insert undergrad degree with same GPA)

Person #1: High School Diploma, GPA 2.5 (kinda lowish GPA)

Person #2: GED

Person #2 would not make the cut. Person #2 will have this process repeat itself anytime he/she is up for a job w/ at least one other possible candidate who has a high school degree.

Do people really put that they have a highschool diploma or GED on a resume? If you have your college degree, I don't know why you would include it.

Good question: Depends on how much work exp or how many years out of school. Usually if someone has a high ass GPA or were in the top 10ish%, of their class, they'll list their HS academic accomplishments.

Edited April 6, 2013 by ChosenOne2000

[Mitch 2111]

To employers it does. I'm not speculating. I'm speaking from experience. Think of it like a resume.

If everything about both candidates were equal:

Both had (insert grad degree with same GPA)

Both had (insert undergrad degree with same GPA)

Person #1: High School Diploma, GPA 2.5 (kinda lowish GPA)

Person #2: GED

Person #2 would not make the cut. Person #2 will have this process repeat itself anytime he/she is up for a job w/ at least one other possible candidate who has a high school degree.

Do people really put that they have a highschool diploma or GED on a resume? If you have your college degree, I don't know why you would include it.

Good question: Depends on how much work exp or how many years out of school. Usually if someone has a high ass GPA or were in the top 10ish%, of their class, they'll list their HS academic accomplishments.

I was at a workshop with Wells Fargo/BofA/Chase, and the HR Directors there told us to put nothing from High School when applying for their internships. They only cared and wanted to know what happened after our first day of college (extracurriculars, athletics, clubs, etc., etc.,). That pretty much rings synonymous with everything else I've been told/found out. Some HR Managers/Recruiters won't even consider your application if it's just a jumble of shit you've done both in high school and college, they only give two shits about what you've done with your time at college.

I thought it was something like you use your high school/teenage accomplishments and achievements (both academic and extracurricular) on your resume until you start your first year of college. After that, no one really cares what you've done in high school, it's what you do in college. The same applies when you're in grad school, no one cares what you really did in undergrad, moreso what you've done in grad school. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[ElectronicDrug 7496]

No one gives a damn if you get a GED, what sort of employer would ask for your high school diploma? If they do just tell them you got a diploma from some high school. No one cares once you have a college degree. Chosen is a discriminatory bastard.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

No one gives a damn if you get a GED, what sort of employer would ask for your high school diploma? If they do just tell them you got a diploma from some high school. No one cares once you have a college degree. Chosen is a discriminatory bastard.

@ Mitch: Applying for an internship/residency (I've had 4) and a board level executive position are two completely different standards. As I previously stated, people can't even join the Army with a GED anymore...THE ARMY...

Drug, it sounds like this topic has struck a personal cord. You may not like what I have to say, but its the reality a GED holder faces when seeking employment for a non minimum wage-non manual labor-mid level management professional job. I'm speaking from experience and training. What are your statements based on Drug? I really don't need to convince you. I'm just relaying knowledge and experience. Feel free to disregard. I promise I won't be butt hurt.

By the way, I don't recommend telling an employer you received your degree "from some high school" when you have a GED. That's fraudulent employment and can result in termination and legal action. Depending on your employer, it could be a federal offense.

Edited April 6, 2013 by ChosenOne2000

[ElectronicDrug 7496]

Drug, it sounds like this topic has struck a personal cord. You may not like what I have to say, but its the reality a GED holder faces when seeking employment for a non minimum wage-non manual labor-mid level management professional job. I'm speaking from experience and training. What are your statements based on Drug? I really don't need to convince you. I'm just relaying knowledge and experience. Feel free to disregard. I promise I won't be butt hurt.

By the way, I don't recommend telling an employer you received your degree "from some high school" when you have a GED. That's fraudulent employment and can result in termination and legal action. Depending on your employer, it could be a federal offense.

Like I said, what sort of employer asks for high school information? There are no mid level professional jobs that give a damn about high school, they only want to see college and experience. I feel like you think whatever military / government jobs you've encountered have skewed your perception of the real world. No one cares about high school. Only McDonalds and your first retail job or whatever care.

And yeah you'd obviously face termination, but no one looks because no one cares.

I have no idea what your experience is that you think people care, but it's wrong in the real world.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

Drug, it sounds like this topic has struck a personal cord. You may not like what I have to say, but its the reality a GED holder faces when seeking employment for a non minimum wage-non manual labor-mid level management professional job. I'm speaking from experience and training. What are your statements based on Drug? I really don't need to convince you. I'm just relaying knowledge and experience. Feel free to disregard. I promise I won't be butt hurt.

By the way, I don't recommend telling an employer you received your degree "from some high school" when you have a GED. That's fraudulent employment and can result in termination and legal action. Depending on your employer, it could be a federal offense.

Like I said, what sort of employer asks for high school information? There are no mid level professional jobs that give a damn about high school, they only want to see college and experience. I feel like you think whatever military / government jobs you've encountered have skewed your perception of the real world. No one cares about high school. Only McDonalds and your first retail job or whatever care.

And yeah you'd obviously face termination, but no one looks because no one cares.

I have no idea what your experience is that you think people care, but it's wrong in the real world.

Any job that requires any type of security clearance will verify your information. Hopefully you haven't lied. To answer your question, I was the CIO of a federal hospital with all civilian employees and contractors. I routinely sat on hiring committees for mid level and senior employees and executives. I'm not here to tear anyone apart. I'm giving you my experience and insight about what happens to your application behind close doors. Again, feel free to be dismissive. Everyone has the right to ignore any advice given, especially on an online gaming forum. I wish you the best of luck in your professional career.

Edited April 6, 2013 by ChosenOne2000

[ElectronicDrug 7496]

Drug, it sounds like this topic has struck a personal cord. You may not like what I have to say, but its the reality a GED holder faces when seeking employment for a non minimum wage-non manual labor-mid level management professional job. I'm speaking from experience and training. What are your statements based on Drug? I really don't need to convince you. I'm just relaying knowledge and experience. Feel free to disregard. I promise I won't be butt hurt.

By the way, I don't recommend telling an employer you received your degree "from some high school" when you have a GED. That's fraudulent employment and can result in termination and legal action. Depending on your employer, it could be a federal offense.

Like I said, what sort of employer asks for high school information? There are no mid level professional jobs that give a damn about high school, they only want to see college and experience. I feel like you think whatever military / government jobs you've encountered have skewed your perception of the real world. No one cares about high school. Only McDonalds and your first retail job or whatever care.

And yeah you'd obviously face termination, but no one looks because no one cares.

I have no idea what your experience is that you think people care, but it's wrong in the real world.

Any job that requires any type of security clearance will verify your information. Hopefully you haven't lied. To answer your question, I was the CIO of a federal hospital with all civilian employees and contractors. I routinely sat on hiring committees for mid level and senior employees and executives. I'm not here to tear anyone apart. I'm giving you my experience and insight about what happens to your application behind close doors. Again, feel free to be dismissive. Everyone has to ignore any advice given, especially on an online gaming forum. I wish you the best of luck in your professional career.

Soo.. you're confirming it's just government jobs like I said. And no, I have a diploma and got my security clearance with no problems. Let me just rephrase everything you've been trying to say, but accurately.

Government jobs care if you have a GED vs a Diploma.

No one in the real world does.

I'd love to hear your opinion on Internet college degrees vs actual degrees though.