Health Care Reform

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

For those who are lost in the wall of text.

The Healthcare Bill for Dummies.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32634644/ns/health-health_care

[Oracion 35]

Back to your response, it's simple supply and demand plus a massive profit margin.

Supply and Demand: Self Explanatory

This may come as a shock, but profit isn't made by curing you instantly. It's made by taking the long road to recovery.

Example: AIDS, treating it is more profitable than curing it. Hell, in the private sector if you stub your toe a doc is going to run 4 sets of tests just to bill your insurance.

With government healthcare there isn't a hidden agenda (well, there shouldn't be).

Trust me, I know that long term care = more profits. But what's also sickening is just general surgery costs. Like I said earlier, my dad was billed 33k for a half day surgery. Granted, Medicare and his insurance DID help (Was more medicare), but at the same time, you can't help but wonder how someone without insurance is supposed to pay off that amount. Going by my last post, if costs ARE reduced, that means that strain on Medicare will also be reduced, because they won't have to pay off so much for these insane bills.

Also, if a doctor told me to go get tests done for a minor injury I did on myself, I'd probably tell him to fuck off and let my toe heal.

[Panther0ps 0]

Ok back from school and back to the discussion that has consumed me

And let me make an opening statement to Oracion, man I have TREMENDEIOUS respect for you!!! You have supplied me with an argument supported by facts that even Chosen has noticed. You are a mature individual that has taken a mature subject and kept it mature. (And I am assuming that you have actually read most maybe everything that I have posted) I am just arguing my viewpoint from my republican side and I want no hard feelings between you and this has been an up most pleasure debating with you my good sir!!!!

Ok now back to your point that you have stated

You noticed how much large, private, company CEO’s have made large amounts of money. Is this right? Yes I believe that it is right that they have. These people are running a business, and businesses strive on making profit. Should these CEO’s make this much profit however? Well for large companies minus the outliers like Cigna and Atena, who I’m sure provide more to large business than WellPoint, UnitedHealth Group, and Humana combined, range between 2 and 5 million dollars a year. “A chief executive officer of a Standard & Poor's 500 company was paid, on average, $10.4 million in total compensation in 2008†(http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/) Health Care CEO’s in retrospect, come no were close to that. Why not look at large gas companies or other companies and Control those if the annual salary of CEO’s to be reduced? I mean health care isn’t a necessity per say, but you take your chances. And I can also say that their money isn’t going untaxed I was looking at Forbes for Atena and their profit margins and all the numbers are before taxed so keep that in mind as well.

And to the 2nd part of that about being dropped from a plan or having to pay more for cretin “pre existing conditions.†Well let’s stay with the automotive analogy about auto insurance. As a new driver, most teenagers pay incredible amount of money more just to be insured. Why is this? Because the lack of experience, as well as the liability that this person has, as well as getting a DUI (Driving Under the Influence should be common knowledge but for some isn’t so there is what DUI stands for) or too many tickets, an insurance company can drop your policy because you are too much of a liability. (I know a lot about auto insurance my mom has worked for State Farm for 21 years) Same as health care, for me (If it was my business) I don’t want to cover someone that has preexisting conditions (Liability Factor), but same with people who are into extreme life styles. I don’t want to cover them and if I do elect to cover them I am going to charge them a Higher Premium, and if they are visiting the ER every three months and getting an MRI because they are worried about having a concussion I no longer want to cover them because they are too much of a Liability and costing my company too much money. And from a business that is trying to produce revenue that’s bad.

I’m sure that I’m missing parts from your argument and if so mention them. If you want me to find the Liability factors for driving and teens and people with DUI’s I will find it, but I’m assuming that it is common knowledge the more tickets you get or accidents you are in the higher your insurance rates will be and sooner or later you will be dropped from your policy. And I mean come on you have to be approved by a company for Auto Insurance.

[Panther0ps 0]

Take from it what you want. I just see it as conveying that Obama is put in his distorted viewpoints as well as the devils (Nancy Pelosi) viewpoint when he gave his speech. Not taking the time to realize what we have now is just fine. I just thought some of the well educated Republicans would like this!!!! And I don't want you to take this for more than it is, A JOKE!!!!!!

I hate Pelosi!!!!!

[Guest Fohacidal]

Pelosi is the cancer of america

she single handedly killed rick rolling

[Oracion 35]

Ok back from school and back to the discussion that has consumed me 

And let me make an opening statement to Oracion, man I have TREMENDEIOUS respect for you!!! You have supplied me with an argument supported by facts that even Chosen has noticed. You are a mature individual that has taken a mature subject and kept it mature. (And I am assuming that you have actually read most maybe everything that I have posted) I am just arguing my viewpoint from my republican side and I want no hard feelings between you and this has been an up most pleasure debating with you my good sir!!!!

Ok now back to your point that you have stated

You noticed how much large, private, company CEO’s have made large amounts of money. Is this right? Yes I believe that it is right that they have. These people are running a business, and businesses strive on making profit. Should these CEO’s make this much profit however? Well for large companies minus the outliers like Cigna and Atena, who I’m sure provide more to large business than WellPoint, UnitedHealth Group, and Humana combined, range between 2 and 5 million dollars a year. “A chief executive officer of a Standard & Poor's 500 company was paid, on average, $10.4 million in total compensation in 2008” (http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/) Health Care CEO’s in retrospect, come no were close to that. Why not look at large gas companies or other companies and Control those if the annual salary of CEO’s to be reduced? I mean health care isn’t a necessity per say, but you take your chances. And I can also say that their money isn’t going untaxed I was looking at Forbes for Atena and their profit margins and all the numbers are before taxed so keep that in mind as well.

And to the 2nd part of that about being dropped from a plan or having to pay more for cretin “pre existing conditions.” Well let’s stay with the automotive analogy about auto insurance. As a new driver, most teenagers pay incredible amount of money more just to be insured. Why is this? Because the lack of experience, as well as the liability that this person has, as well as getting a DUI (Driving Under the Influence should be common knowledge but for some isn’t so there is what DUI stands for) or too many tickets, an insurance company can drop your policy because you are too much of a liability. (I know a lot about auto insurance my mom has worked for State Farm for 21 years) Same as health care, for me (If it was my business) I don’t want to cover someone that has preexisting conditions (Liability Factor), but same with people who are into extreme life styles. I don’t want to cover them and if I do elect to cover them I am going to charge them a Higher Premium, and if they are visiting the ER every three months and getting an MRI because they are worried about having a concussion I no longer want to cover them because they are too much of a Liability and costing my company too much money. And from a business that is trying to produce revenue that’s bad.

I’m sure that I’m missing parts from your argument and if so mention them. If you want me to find the Liability factors for driving and teens and people with DUI’s I will find it, but I’m assuming that it is common knowledge the more tickets you get or accidents you are in the higher your insurance rates will be and sooner or later you will be dropped from your policy. And I mean come on you have to be approved by a company for Auto Insurance.

First off, thanks for that. It's good to debate so long as we keep a leveled head.

Second off, I have no issue with bonuses and profit. I get that it's part of being a CEO and stuff. From my standpoint though, it's just sickening at the numbers, especially at this point in the economy when bonuses are being paid off at records, and people are getting laid off. And when I'm seeing profits shoot through the roof, and insurance companies are arguing over what is worth spending on or not when people are paying them to keep them healthy when they need it, then it starts becoming very, very sketchy.

To the driving analogy, point well made, but at the same time why are those that are on the plan with no real health issues, and no current conditions having to front the same money as everyone else, and take the price raises as they come? I'm 21 currently, and I have no issues and in good health, but god forbid something happens to me once, they'll easily jack up my rates and the like and keep them there because of an accident that happens.

Now obviously, if someone is going often with no real need to outside of being paranoid, then I can understand charging a bit more, but when I talk about issues with insurance, I'm more fixated on people getting dicked solely due to one accident/needed surgery where it happens, the bill comes, then the insurance deems it worthy or not of coverage. There's no reason they SHOULDN'T cover you for stuff when you need it, and even then if you do have issues, there isn't any real reason you should be denied if you honestly need the coverage so you can live.

Edit: I forgot to add: I'm all for getting rid of Reid and Pelosi cause I honestly haven't seen them do a goddamn thing myself. Reid acts like a bitch, and Pelosi just doesn't really fit into the whole group that we Dems are looking for.

[Panther0ps 0]

Sorry I will type something with meaning in the A.M

[Supernaut 1]

This ain't twitter or facebook.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

This ain't twitter or facebook.

I don't understand

[subgunner 0]

I am completely lost to the wall of text. Hay what do i care i get free health care lol.

Besides just making an addition of knowledge and stuff I'm going to ask something instead.

Why does the US gov. only pay for 45.4% of all health care costs? Increasing it and lowering research I believe will benefit everyone more as in terms of health. Example my sister needed surgery for her *condition* and it would've cost 12, 000 dollars without private insurance where as it woulda cost nearly $24,000- 25,000 dollars without the Canadian health care system. Our private health care took away an additional $8,000 so we only needed to pay approx. $4000 in the end which was more or less do able instead of buying like a new car.

Where did I get these numbers? From a bill from the hospital of course.