Health Care Reform

[Panther0ps 0]

This thread is a post off of the Obama Thread. I’m making this thread to start a new topic and just not notice that someone in the crowd yelled out “YOU LIE†during his speech. I want to know what you guys think about this new health care plan. Please give your opinions about it and answer the poll. I also want you all to know that your opinions will matter wither you are under a health care plan right now. If you are under a health care plan you are more likely to answer that Health Care doesn’t need reform, but vice versa if you aren’t you are more likely to vote that it does need reform. If you don’t mind I would like to know your answer to the poll and wither you have health care or not because I will be presenting this in a discussion to my political analyses class later on in the semester.

IT IS 100% YOUR CHOICE TO TELL ME WHAT YOU ANSWERED BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THAT NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE COMFORTABLE ANSWERING THAT QUESTION

Let me start off my argument that I am a Strong republican and disagree with a lot of what its going on with new reforms and stuff that the Obama administration are doing. People complain that we spent too much money on the war while Bush was in office, but the Obama (not Obama himself his administration) has spent more money in the first three weeks that he was in office than president Bushes’ administration did in his entire 8 years while in office. Nancy Pelosi is a dumb bitch, who will probably write another stupid ass bill for health care reform, giving trillions of dollars to it, and get it passed, leading America into a downward spiral even faster than it already is. To prove that socialized health care is a bad idea think about all the Canadians who come to the U.S for health care right now. The Canadian SOCIALIZED health care policies are so bad that patients are put on waiting list for certain things because of their system. I don’t want my health care to do that. Because I make money and work hard I want to be rewarded in my health care when I get hurt. I don’t want to have to pay more taxes so someone that dose nothing is offered the same things as I am. That is like rewarding a bad student who didn’t turn in his homework and giving him an A.

I want to know from the people who are in support of this socialized health care “reform†how they propose that we get the money to make this a reality. Because in reality the United States, in its failing economic times, doesn’t have to money to make it a reality. Another valid point is people don’t want to pay more taxes for it. And forget about taxing the wealthy because they will never agree to pay more taxes so lower classes can get the same medical treatment that they get. The health care as good as it sounds (Even though it doesn’t sound good at all) will never happen and won’t pass. You can mark my words that I 100 percent know that this won’t pass. And also what will happen with all the revenue that is produced by insurance companies that provide health care? And what will happen to all the people that are working these jobs? That will lead into more lost jobs in insurance companies and take money out of our Free Market. And what will happen to people who get this as a work benefit? Do they get an increase in salary or more paid vacation time because they don’t get this benefit anymore?

I end with this statement

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AND SURVIVED ON A FREE MARKET ECONOMY NOT A SOCIELIZED ECONOMY AND WAY OF DOING THINGS. WHY CHANGE NOW? THERE IS NO NEED FOR IT AND WILL WORSEN OUR COUNTRY!

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

You must be really bored in psych class. My health care is free for life.

[Panther0ps 0]

You must be really bored in psych class. My health care is free for life.

See you serve our country and better ther United States!!! I have no preblem what so ever in paying your Health Care. (As part of my taxes lol)

ha ha and I re-did this when I got home from school

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

See you serve our country and better ther United States!!! I have no preblem what so ever in paying your Health Care. (As part of my taxes lol)

ha ha and I re-did this when I got home from school

And I thank you for it

Dude thats a lot of typing for a cellphone.

[Panther0ps 0]

Ha ha well I have an iPhone so it's not that bad I have a full keyboard and it has that word check and everything so... Not that bad

COME ON GUYS READ IT AND POST I WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY PLZZZZZZZZZ:D

[apathy 1]

We need to have reform. The insurance company's have a strangle hold of the market. I don't fully agree with Obama's plan but something needs to change. As for the outburst that was made during the Obama speech. It was wrong and improper for him to do such.

Socielism has worked in a lot of countrys. Canada health care is not the only way. People need to stop listening to the mental vampire's like hannity and savage.

[Panther0ps 0]

I do agree with you on the outburst it was completely impropriate for someone to do and totally unprofessional, especially to do to the President of the United States while giving a speech. They are lucky that we aren’t in a county in which that would have gotten you killed.

[Empire 30]

eh.. i think health care is fine as it is, no reason to change it, maybe make lower income families have a reduced cost.

but then again, i am a big proponent of capitalism/free market. most people have the ability to be able to afford insurance/care, and i don't think it should be changed. whatever you want, you can probably get in the USA. of course, this isn't free (as in terms of work hours), but it is possible to get whatever you want.

this probably sounds confusing b/c i just finished 3 hrs of calc3 stuff, but the bottom line is

if you work hard in america, you can get (almost) anything you want.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

You must be really bored in psych class. My health care is free for life.

I love Tricare to death, and if it didn't expire when I turn 23 I would say no to healthcare reform. But, since it does expire, I said yes, but not necessarily to Obama's plan.

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

I love Tricare to death, and if it didn't expire when I turn 23 I would say no to healthcare reform. But, since it does expire, I said yes, but not necessarily to Obama's plan.

You must be under your parent's plan for Tricare Prime. Thats a good plan and should cover you throughout college. Hopefully you can find a job with good coverage.

Back in high school I think my mother had something called "Mail handlers". I don't know how great it was, but it did the trick until I signed my contract at 17.

[blob 1985]

I think everyone should have free healthcare.

Why? Cause I'm don't care about money as much as I do about people. Sure I have a job and I get insurance for 8 dollars, but I'd rather pay more money to help others out.

[Panther0ps 0]

I think everyone should have free healthcare.

Why? Cause I'm don't care about money as much as I do about people. Sure I have a job and I get insurance for 8 dollars, but I'd rather pay more money to help others out.

I'm not saying screw the people here, but that is a total democratic viewpoint. I bet you want more food stamps for families too. Because they have it so hard right. Man maybe I should quit everything that I’m striving for and fall under the United States plan and grow up on others hard earned money that sounds great to me!!! Nah I think I will stay with that plan where I am a responsible adult and work hard for what I earn Blob. I mean come on I was a waiter and I was offered health care through Brinker Inc. There is no problem with health care if I can receive it through a company that makes you wait tables.

[UnknownLegend 5480]

You must be under your parent's plan for Tricare Prime. Thats a good plan and should cover you throughout college. Hopefully you can find a job with good coverage.

Back in high school I think my mother had something called "Mail handlers". I don't know how great it was, but it did the trick until I signed my contract at 17.

I only wish I could extend it through grad school

[Samm. 13]

I do not know enough about this to say :/

[Panther0ps 0]

I will form now on, in any post, refer to Health Care as HC and insurance companies as IC.

For those of you who do not fallow politics and do not understand what the HC Reform is about I will give you an outline of Obama’s speech that he delivered to Congress earlier this week. If you have any questions about what I have written or want me to explain it better I will do that to the best of my abilities.

Health Care Reform

There are 3 (A. B. & C.) main points that Obama focused on in his speech I will go through them one by one and then give the sub notes/topics for the claims that he made after the speech.

A. For those people in the United States that have HC, the new plan that is proposed provides more stability and security to you.

1. If you have HC nothing will change your plan you won’t get a change in Dr. or plan, what it will do is make it illegal for HC companies or IC to drop you from your plan because of preexisting conditions.

2. IC cannot put a cap on the HC that you receive in a given year or the HC that you receive.

3. It will put a cap on any out of pocket expenses that you will have to pay to your HC provider.

4. HC companies will have to provide for routine checkups including checkups that look for diseases.

B. People who don’t have HC will have the option to choices in HC that are affordable. This will happen by creating a new IC exchange where people can find the price they want to pay, thus leading to people bargaining to get better prices and treatment given to them by their HC provider.

C. People who can’t afford that, the majority of people, will get tax credit based on your needs as and individual/family.

These are his three main points. Here are all the sub point that he presented after providing Congress with the basic outline of his bill.

There are 11 main sub points of Obama’s HC plan that he held self evident by making it a point to discuss or tell congress.

1. You will be REQUIRED BY LAW to have HC.

2. No federal Spending will go to support abortions.

3. No illegal immigrants will receive HC in the United States

4. Small businesses, 95% of businesses, will be provided for them

5. Obama claims he wants to hold HC companies and IC accountable, and also make a nonprofit for HC (i.e. Government would provide this for people) and nonprofit remember means no spending for those people so free HC provided by government if need be. He claims however that he thinks only 5% of Americans would use this (Which is 15,202,986 people)

6. The bill cannot add money to the National Deficit or Obama will not sing it

7. If they can’t write the bill without adding to the National Deficit then Obama will increase spending cuts that have to be put into the plan

8. Cut spending in the Medical Profession.

9. Nothing will be taken out of the Medicare plan for senior citizens. Obama claims he will protect Medicare.

10. He wants the Drug industries and Insurance companies to help for the funding in the starting of this plan

11. It will cost 900 Billion dollars, but claims that most of the cost will come from money already in the HC system

This will not happen however for another 4 years (Once Obama is out of office how prime for him and his staff unless reelected next election) But if you can’t afford it after the bill is passed than the Government will step in and cover the cost for you.

I hope this helps those of you who don't understand what the new HC plans are. And what the reform is calling for.

P.S

It took me almost 2 hours to complete this, SO PLZ READ THIS IF YOU ARE UNSURE OF THE TOPIC. (An hour was watching the adress again so I didn't miss anything)

[Zagrao 0]

Oops I meant to vote no, and I have health care.

If Obama gets that health reform passed, we're all screwed forever. I don't really see an issue with health care as it is right now. Sure, you could modify it a little and bring a few more people to fit into the budget, but national is a bit too much.

Only way that would be plausible was if we had a massive amount of hospitals with an equal amount of qualified doctors and nurses, etc.

[Oracion 35]

Oops I meant to vote no, and I have health care.

If Obama gets that health reform passed, we're all screwed forever. I don't really see an issue with health care as it is right now. Sure, you could modify it a little and bring a few more people to fit into the budget, but national is a bit too much.

Only way that would be plausible was if we had a massive amount of hospitals with an equal amount of qualified doctors and nurses, etc.

Wait wait, nothing wrong with health care?

My dad had a 33k bill for a half-day hospital stay to get a stent put in, e.g minor surgery less than an hour.

A guy in texas had two fingers cut off in an accident. To get them both put back on would cost 100k.

People on the northern border are going to Canada/other countries to get drugs/surgeries cheaper.

Insurance makes you pay so much, but yet, you get so little out of it depending on which plan, and they won't guarantee everything: Ask Nataline Sarkisyan.

Point I'm trying to make is that there are MANY things wrong with it. I'm not really up for a full out system like other countries, but I'd like this public option to go through so the insurance companies get more competition and actually WANT to make people stay with coverage that's dependable. Currently 36% of the insurance market is controlled by two companies alone, where they decide what you get and for how much. You can't tell me that's wrong when you have that high of a % telling you what you should get. Not much competition there, I'd say.

As to being screwed if this is put in, obviously I'm skeptic, but you can't sit there and say that everything is fine and dandy for everyone right now.

[Empire 30]

i think HC is fine with the few companies that are controlling it right now, increasing taxes, cutting other plans, gutting the military, and others are bad ways to fund HC. Of course, as of right now, those are the only ways to do it.

i'm not a big fan of taxing the rich to give it to the poor. it's like, i'll be taking your money and giving it to the poor just b/c they're poor. Its like donating money, but it's mandatory.

i mean hell, there are lots of jobs that take no mental capacity but still pay well (garbage men make upwards of 60k a year)

[ChosenOne2000 4440]

There is a Michael Moore movie called Sicko. Great movie! It highlights healthcare from a global point of view. If you've seen it chime in.

[Guest Fohacidal]

Wait wait, nothing wrong with health care?

My dad had a 33k bill for a half-day hospital stay to get a stent put in, e.g minor surgery less than an hour.

A guy in texas had two fingers cut off in an accident. To get them both put back on would cost 100k.

People on the northern border are going to Canada/other countries to get drugs/surgeries cheaper.

Insurance makes you pay so much, but yet, you get so little out of it depending on which plan, and they won't guarantee everything: Ask Nataline Sarkisyan.

Point I'm trying to make is that there are MANY things wrong with it. I'm not really up for a full out system like other countries, but I'd like this public option to go through so the insurance companies get more competition and actually WANT to make people stay with coverage that's dependable. Currently 36% of the insurance market is controlled by two companies alone, where they decide what you get and for how much. You can't tell me that's wrong when you have that high of a % telling you what you should get. Not much competition there, I'd say.

As to being screwed if this is put in, obviously I'm skeptic, but you can't sit there and say that everything is fine and dandy for everyone right now.

Iv actually read about the opposite, canadians and hispanics, and even europeans coming to america to get healthcare :/

I wouldnt mind a competing system, it would provide an alternative to private HC and force competition lowering all their prices and forcing coverage.

[Oracion 35]

Iv actually read about the opposite, canadians and hispanics, and even europeans coming to america to get healthcare :/

I wouldnt mind a competing system, it would provide an alternative to private HC and force competition lowering all their prices and forcing coverage.

Honestly, everyone is flying everywhere for health care. People from here are going in and out, just as people are coming in here to get what they need. I think the term I heard for it was Medical Tourism. I'm not saying we are the only ones that do it, but the thing is, we do it because it's cheaper for our personal bills. Other countries such as Canada and Britain fly people over here and pay most of the costs so they can get the surgery in the states, those costs are funded by the government care they have.

[blob 1985]

I'm not saying screw the people here, but that is a total democratic viewpoint. I bet you want more food stamps for families too. Because they have it so hard right. Man maybe I should quit everything that I’m striving for and fall under the United States plan and grow up on others hard earned money that sounds great to me!!! Nah I think I will stay with that plan where I am a responsible adult and work hard for what I earn Blob. I mean come on I was a waiter and I was offered health care through Brinker Inc. There is no problem with health care if I can receive it through a company that makes you wait tables.

I'm not saying that, I just think that healthcare should be a right. We pay so much in taxes for stuff that we don't need right now. I'd like to see that money put to good use.

Also not a democrat, more or less a socialist.

There is a Michael Moore movie called Sicko. Great movie! It highlights healthcare from a global point of view. If you've seen it chime in.

I think it was a great movie. I feel so bad for the 9/11 firefighters who couldnt even get help in this country. Firefighters and Police Officers help the people in this country more than the Armed Forces* (at this point at least) and should be able to get healthcare free for what they do.

*Not saying that they do nothing, just saying at this point in time there isn't much world conflict going on

[Empire 30]

i was debating w/ a friend, and he's a staunch repub.

he think we should just give tax rebates/ direct money to the people who aren't getting HC, so they can just buy it themselves with that money. Either that, or I suggested that the gov't acts as an IC for people who are under the poverty line. That way HC isn't changed, just the way people pay for it.

[Guest Fohacidal]

Honestly, everyone is flying everywhere for health care. People from here are going in and out, just as people are coming in here to get what they need. I think the term I heard for it was Medical Tourism. I'm not saying we are the only ones that do it, but the thing is, we do it because it's cheaper for our personal bills. Other countries such as Canada and Britain fly people over here and pay most of the costs so they can get the surgery in the states, those costs are funded by the government care they have.

Im pretty sure they pay out of pocket

[Panther0ps 0]

I hope my previous post helped

Ok the description that I posted didn’t have too much bias. I tried to relay just the facts in the Bill that he wants and what he wants to change. Obama used a lot of pathos in his speech trying to “rally†some democrats and republicans to get on his side, but this was meant for the American people to see and rally around him to push for the bill to be passed. I see some serious problems in it however. I will just label the points that I want to show where it fails.

1.Requiring by law to hold HC

What will be the penalty if you don’t have health care? A ticket? Maybe a Fine? This will be extremely hard for law enforcement to enforce. What will cops ask for now when they pull you over? Drives License, HC, and Insurance? There will be no way to enforce this law.

3.Illegal Immigrant and HC

The United States already had a problem with this when an illegal immigrant was getting HC. The illegal immigrant was sent back to his home town of Guatemala. The United States had already spent tax money on him in supporting his hospital bills. Then the family sued and lost, but right after his deportation, the far left people were saying that we had a moral obligation to help this man, and it was about a moral issue. No it’s not our responsibility as tax payers to support illegal immigrants and their bills. And what will prevent these people from getting HC? Will another law be required that makes it potent tat IC and HC companies have proof of citizen ship before they grant you with HC?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32172808/ns/health-health_care

5.Government Run nonprofit HC company

What will stop the other Americans from obtaining this HC? And where is this money going to come from? As of 2005 it said that a person given HC spends an average of 4,000 dollars a year. That is $60,811,944,000 tax dollars that we would have to spend because the government doesn’t have its own money to spend. Their money comes from taxes. And if you want to use the magic 10 year plan that is talked about that is more than a half a trillion dollars if only the 5% of America uses it. WHERE DOSE THE MONEY COME FROM FOR THIS? THE MAGIC MONEY TREE AMERICANS DON’T HAVE???? And in reality you really think only 5% of people will use it? Get real; there are 37million Americans below our “Poverty†line.

6 and 7 I thought contradicted each other. There is now way for the government to do this without spending. And IC and Drug Companies are supposed to turn profit with lower rates how is it possible for the government not to spend money.

8. Cut spending in medical Profession.

The reason we are so health now is because of government funding to Medical Research. These funding can lead to amazing break troughs in the medical profession. Keeping America healthy, also leading to longer life spans come from this. I want to have the BEST when I go to the DR. and know that the treatment I am getting is the best I can get.

I mean I would love you to prove me wrong but I doubt that you can. Get off Fanisity Island and come to reality if you really think this is a plausible thing to do.