Vegan

[Contract Killer 24]

What the hell its legal to use black powder in Illinois?!

Black powder rifles, like muzzleloaders.

[Jinn Master 0]

@jinn master: do you support abortion... i know this is besides the point, but according to your logic a fetus would have no sense of dignity or even cognitive thought for that matter, meaning they can be terminated with out a second thought. as far as uses goes for the dead fetus there is always research to be made.

I am against abortion, but pro choice. I believe that the only reasons it is acceptable is to save the mother's life, or as the result of a rape. However, I do not believe a fetus has dignity or cognitive function. However, they have the POTENTIAL for it, unlike animals.

Dignity is a human invention- dignity is upholding oneself with honor, and having enough self respect to take care of yourself. Since animals have no honor system, and are incapable of self respect, they can have no dignity.

[fatb0y 1337]

@jinn master: according to your logic... animals should have no means of surviving if it does not have the drive, or self respect, to take of themselves. hmm i wonder, lets say in a pack of wolves, the alpha male wolf strives and in a sense has ambitions to be in a place of power and has enough self respect to try to retain its power. An alpha male of any pack will not willingly relinquish its alpha male status with out a fight.

self-respect is defined as the regard for one's own standing or position. The above scenario of wolves fighting to be the alpha male seems like self respect to me..

[deathway 0]

I am against abortion, but pro choice. I believe that the only reasons it is acceptable is to save the mother's life, or as the result of a rape. However, I do not believe a fetus has dignity or cognitive function. However, they have the POTENTIAL for it, unlike animals.

Dignity is a human invention- dignity is upholding oneself with honor, and having enough self respect to take care of yourself. Since animals have no honor system, and are incapable of self respect, they can have no dignity.

Not true...

[Jinn Master 0]

self-re·spect Audio Help /ˈsÉ›lfrɪˈspÉ›kt, ËÅ’sÉ›lf-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[self-ri-spekt, self-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

proper esteem or regard for the dignity of one's character.

[Origin: 1605–15]

â€â€ÂRelated forms

self-re·spect·ful, self-re·spect·ing, adjective

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

dig·ni·ty Audio Help /ˈdɪgnɪti/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dig-ni-tee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun, plural -ties.

1. bearing, conduct, or speech indicative of self-respect or appreciation of the formality or gravity of an occasion or situation.

2. nobility or elevation of character; worthiness: dignity of sentiments.

3. elevated rank, office, station, etc.

4. relative standing; rank.

5. a sign or token of respect: an impertinent question unworthy of the dignity of an answer.

6. Archaic.

a. person of high rank or title.

b. such persons collectively.

[Origin: 1175–1225; ME dignite < AF, OF < L dignitÄÂs worthiness, equiv. to dign(us) worthy + -itÄÂs -ity]

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Sorry, but instinct, what you are talking about, does not enter into this arguement.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This

in·stinct1 Audio Help /ˈɪnstɪÅ‹kt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-stingkt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

1. an inborn pattern of activity or tendency to action common to a given biological species.

2. a natural or innate impulse, inclination, or tendency.

3. a natural aptitude or gift: an instinct for making money.

4. natural intuitive power.

[Origin: 1375–1425; late ME < L instinctus prompting, instigation, enthusiasm, equiv. to *insting(uere) (in- in-2 + *sting(u)ere presumably, to prick; see distinct) + -tus suffix of v. action]

â€â€ÂSynonyms 3. genius, knack, faculty, talent.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Animals have no self respect. They have no dignity. They cannot reason, for the most part. They can make decisions, learn from mistakes, and do similar things. But they cannot develop any higher order thinking skills.

There are three exceptions to the reasoning- Apes, Chimps, and Horses. But none have dignity.

[fatb0y 1337]

@ jinn master: once again according to your logic... since animals are not dignified, they can be terminated with out remorse.. correct? Well with your definition of dignified, it is a solely human trait. So you are basically saying only humans deserve consideration before being terminated. correct? But even further than that, are you not implying that only dignified individuals deserve consideration? if so who gets to decide if a person is dignified or not? do you? or does a group of people decide? If it is a group, who is to say everyone in that group is a dignified individual? What if you decide a group of people are not dignified? does that not lead to genocide of an entire group of people with no remorse? because that particular group of people are seen as lesser beings because [in your eyes] they have no dignity.

also.. your narrow view of the intellect of animals is quite astonishing. apes, chimps, and horses are not the only animals that have reasoning skills. Dolphins are able to co ordinate attacks on schools of fish. I believe the ability to co-ordinate an attack to be considered reasoning skills.

[Jinn Master 0]

DIGNITY DOESNT HAVE ANY FUCKING THING TO DO WITH SOMETHINGS RIGHT TO LIVE.

That's why I brought up dignity in the first place- Identity said animals have it, and should be respected. I say they don't, and should still be respected. I just don't think that respect should extend to my dinner plate.

Did you even read the rest of the thread?

EDIT- I see where you could think that I meant that taking care of yourself and self respect applies to the animal world. However, I did not mean that- I was talking about people.

And, what I meant for self respect, is this.

Self respect is not allowing yourself to become addicted to cocaine and become human trash.

Self respect is not allowing yourself to become a couch potato and a fat sack of lard- or if you do, you try to correct it at least.

Self respect is standing by what you believe in, because you believe in it.

Self respect is having the balls to admit you are wrong.

Self respect is being honest.

Self respect is protecting the ones you love.

Self respect is making something of yourself and not letting yourself end up on the streets, or if you are, doing your best to get off of them.

Self respect is making sure your friends are actually friends, and not idiots wanting to take advantage.

Animals can't do that. They don't understand any of that- what they do, they do for the proliferation of the species, not out of any belief in right and wrong.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

And the reason I didn't include dolphins is because I don't like them. They kill for fun. Which, I suppose, is reasoning.

IM RACIST AGAINST DOLPHINS!!!!!

[Sir. Hot Mayo 1143]

We are the top of the food chain, we will kill and eat what ever we like.

As for being a Vegan, good for you. But I think killing animals is the natural thing to do. (I'll expect an argument)

[fatb0y 1337]

@ jinn master: as a matter of fact i did read the thread. and reading your posts, i interpreted your claims. there is no need to use such harsh language. and as a matter of fact you would have been better off saying "i like to eat meat and i can eat meat whenever i want and so i will indulge". By saying animals do not have dignity, you are saying much more than you like to eat meat.

I actually completely agree with hot mayo. We are the top, and we can eat whatever we damn well please (within the confines of your law system).

[Jinn Master 0]

Check my edit.

And, animals don't have dignity.

[fatb0y 1337]

well thats messed up... dolphins are great.

[Jinn Master 0]

I used to like em too, but recently there has been alot of stuff about how they are very violent, and kill porpoises for fun. At least, no scientific explanation was available.

[fatb0y 1337]

just shows how intelligent they are. they are like us, they kill for fun.

[Jinn Master 0]

I despise anyone who kills for fun and no other reason- I said so earlier.

Specifically for the reason that they have no moral fiber for doing so.

And yes, I realize it's stupid for me to hold animals to a standard I don't believe they can understand. Never said I made sense though, did I

[identityzero 0]

Well I don't think you understand my standard, so you are just like an animal to me.

Let's say you were hunting in the woods, and you got caught in a bear trap of mine, and I came across you, darted you, tied you up and was going to eat you.

Would you not want me to weigh the choice I am making to cut you into pieces while you are still alive, conscious and eat you? Would you want me to slice your throat open, hang you upside down from one foot, let your blood drain, boil you, burn the remaining hair from your body with an industrial blowtorch, and peel you. ALL with the chance of you still being alive, you want to take that chance?

It's about HAVING the same consideration and respect you would have for ANYTHING else, and the consideration and respect you would want from another human being, or an animal if it were to have that cognitive ability.

[Jinn Master 0]

You forgot the first step made after a kill. Slitting its throat. I'd love to see an animal that could be alive after that.

1. I am not an animal, so this does not matter.

2. Animals will feel pain, but that is all. They do not feel remorse. They do not feel any emotion we can relate to.

3. Animals can feel fear- driven by pain.

4. It is very rare that someone actually abuses an animal in the way you think is common. It is illegal to do that- it is morally wrong. So, most people actually kill with care, so to speak.

[MindSpring 73]

Well good for you rob, I didn't know that about you.

..I'm not a vegitarian but I am a dietarian, I don't eat fast food,candy etc

[identityzero 0]

Well good for you rob, I didn't know that about you.

..I'm not a vegitarian but I am a dietarian, I don't eat fast food,candy etc

Gracias Mind Spring, atleast you show restraint in some of the fields, where many people think there's no other alternative.

Jinn I did say "Would you want me to slice your throat open" in the shpeelio above. So I did include Slitting the throat. You can see animals, in Earthlings videos and PETA videos still alive after the throat slitting, ESPECIALLY in "kosher" cow slaughter.

1.) You fail to put yourself in the shoes (or lack there of shoes) of the Animal so you are infact a speciesist, a rapist of the planet, sorry. Thousands of cultures felt empathy for creatures they killed because it was morally right, this practice has come to an end since slaughterhouses are now a sick standard proceedure.

2.) Yes, they feel pain, like we do, in some cases even more pain, due to some of the extremes of some animals nervous system.

3.) Yes, pain does cause fear, an a fuck of alot of it when a creature DOES NOT UNDERSTAND why, what, and the purpose of what is happening to it.

4.) Just because it's illegal to mistreat animals, it doesn't mean it's not common practice, I live about an hour away from a Tyson processing plant. Friends who use to work there, animals get abused all the time, some do not get rendered unconscious by the captive bolt gun. The Earthlings videos, that I listed links to on pages prior, may be depictions of mistreatment of animals, but NOT ONE piece of footage is ACCEPTABLE in ANY WAY. Killing with care is not common practice, killing humanely as possible as not to lose a job is practice. Animals are treated like they are meer items, nothing more, it is a sick practice no matter how you look at it. Watch Earthlings, on google video or on youtube, you'll see what I mean. Just as doctors over time become immune to care and bedside manner, as do people in the job of slaughtering animals.

So what would happen if we were to stop eating meat? The grain we grow to feed the animals that we eat, would become grains we grow to feed the population. We could feed the population of the world, without a problem, without the practice of feeding livestock to serve as food for us.

[Jinn Master 0]

Then I am forced to admit that I am a psychopathic killer, a sadist, a freak, and a murderous fiend.

Oh well.

[fatb0y 1337]

well unless you are personally doing the butchering, i wouldnt say murderous fiend...

accomplice to murder would be more appropriate...

[SwitchBlade 1]

First off, i would just like to state that pretty much the only healthy thing inside meat is protein, which you can get from other foods, so meat is not essential for the body to remain healthy, vegetables have no fat, and have tons of vitamins, they are the healthiest food in the world, like it or not, that is the way it is, meat on the other hand, especially nowadays, is so "polluted" with toxins that it makes my stomach do back flips, i only eat the exact amount of meat that my body needs, but in general stay away from it, there is nothing wrong with being a Vegetarian, as long as you are getting the correct amount of protein your body will be as healthy as can be, but certain types of meat are the worlds number 1 killers besides smoking, which cause heart attacks and all kinds of dangerous problems, if you eat meat, especially alot of it, it is a MUST, to do some kind of physical exercise, the heart and arteries are the most affected by meat due to the fat levels, and eating vegetables and fruit will lower any risks of death. As a martial artist, i can't explain how important it is to eat as much vegetables and fruit my body can take, and eat very little meat, as it will only interfere with my goals in life, this whole "Fuck rabbit food gimme a steak" phrase that i hear going around is what someone says who has not learned which foods contain what vitamin, and what they do for your body, the only healthy meats out there are Fish and Chicken, Chicken is somewhat less healthier but still not even close to being as bad as beef or other types of meat. The food that people eat is one of the reasons why people are not living long lives, physical exercise and healthy eating leads to a nice long healthy life, it does take effort, but nobody said it would be easy. The bottom line is, people are being mislead and told that meat is healthy, there are very few healthy meats out there especially nowdays where foods are being loaded with preservatives and all kinds of silent killers, the truth is that Vegetables and fruit are a must, and that you should not eat a lot of meat.

[Kelso 4]

If you don't like the smell of burning meat, get the fuck off the planet. I like how steak tastes, and I'll keep on eating it. The world is going to shit anyways, may as well not live my life as a vegan who looks like he's a victim of the Holocaust.

Meat eating will never be eradicated, just like racism won't. Vegetarianism has a weaker case than racism, and racism is far from being abolished.

I know Berserk wasn't serious, but I thought I'd post here anyways.

[fatb0y 1337]

who was trying to eradicate meat eating?

[berserk 1]

First off, i would just like to state that pretty much the only healthy thing inside meat is protein, which you can get from other foods, so meat is not essential for the body to remain healthy, vegetables have no fat, and have tons of vitamins, they are the healthiest food in the world, like it or not, that is the way it is, meat on the other hand, especially nowadays, is so "polluted" with toxins that it makes my stomach do back flips, i only eat the exact amount of meat that my body needs, but in general stay away from it, there is nothing wrong with being a Vegetarian, as long as you are getting the correct amount of protein your body will be as healthy as can be, but certain types of meat are the worlds number 1 killers besides smoking, which cause heart attacks and all kinds of dangerous problems, if you eat meat, especially alot of it, it is a MUST, to do some kind of physical exercise, the heart and arteries are the most affected by meat due to the fat levels, and eating vegetables and fruit will lower any risks of death. As a martial artist, i can't explain how important it is to eat as much vegetables and fruit my body can take, and eat very little meat, as it will only interfere with my goals in life, this whole "Fuck rabbit food gimme a steak" phrase that i hear going around is what someone says who has not learned which foods contain what vitamin, and what they do for your body, the only healthy meats out there are Fish and Chicken, Chicken is somewhat less healthier but still not even close to being as bad as beef or other types of meat. The food that people eat is one of the reasons why people are not living long lives, physical exercise and healthy eating leads to a nice long healthy life, it does take effort, but nobody said it would be easy. The bottom line is, people are being mislead and told that meat is healthy, there are very few healthy meats out there especially nowdays where foods are being loaded with preservatives and all kinds of silent killers, the truth is that Vegetables and fruit are a must, and that you should not eat a lot of meat.

BLOCK OF TEX...BRAAAAHHHHHH

[Kelso 4]

who was trying to eradicate meat eating?

The entire "EcoTeam" in my school. Lol, they were trying to cut down the meats in the cafeteria. What a bunch of fucks, trying to push their food agenda on the entire school.