Boredom

[Kelso 4]

EDIT: Didn't see his edit, sorry. =P

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hushx @ Apr 20 2007, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well numbers are capable of being changed all the time. Errors are corrected, and more and more information comes to light as more evidence is dug up (i.e, military documents, old diaries, pictures, letters, etc). Look at whats going on with figures on the number of deaths in Iraq since the 2003 Invasion; one estimate puts it the total deaths at 601,000, while another puts it at 590,000, and 700,000, etc.

Regarding the torture theory, I simply cannot believe that Allied soldiers were able to torture EVERY single German soldier stationed at these sort of camps who surrendered. Note that these were not prominent Nazi leaders or officials; many were regular German men who fought for their country because they had to. Why torture them? And how do you torture over hundreds of thousands of troops? Especially considering most were simply released and allowed to finally go back to their homes and families all across Europe.

When it comes to believing someone going on theories or believing someone who was actually THERE, I'd choose the latter.

Which is why their aren't hundreds of thousands of "confessions". Soon this jewish lie will be exposed for what it really is, a hoax used to cover up their murder of non jewish civilians in the USSR from 1919-1940.

[Kelso 4]

Yeah... soon alright...

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mesa @ Apr 20 2007, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Actually I'm 1/3rd German and the rest of me is Caucasian Canadian. Not even close to your assumption.

Facts?

Holocaust, why you think Hitler has good ideas, what do you think about 4 20(today).

Oh, and why the fuck did you decide to be nazi?

I'm looking for personal input here, cc90.

Today is Hitler's birthday, I decided to become one because their form of government is great, the people who are in the party are genius, beyond a doubt the aryan race has contributed more to life than any other, my grandfather always told me how great it was when he was an officer in the SS, they said life was perfect, until the jews slandered their way to victory.

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ranger @ Apr 20 2007, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Adolf Hitler was an evil man. Not a bad one. He was a brilliant general. Who knew how to lead his men. And you cannot state otherwise.

How was Hitler evil? Have you ever seen one of his speeches? which he wrote by himself by the way, he is not only a great speaker, but a nice person, its not wrong to execute those who bring trouble to the world.

yet again:

[Kelso 4]

So strictly for their cunning intellectual stability in government?

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mesa @ Apr 20 2007, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yeah... soon alright...

Its been reduced so much now, the only thing left from it being exposed is the laws in Europe, and the people still believing it happend, without any proof, ie GOD, could be used as an example of this.

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mesa @ Apr 20 2007, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

So strictly for their cunning intellectual stability in government?

If that were the only reason, I wouldnt believe in this as much as I do, what makes you like Capitalism?, and this form of government? Cause im sure you are not fond of bush.

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hushx @ Apr 20 2007, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well numbers are capable of being changed all the time. Errors are corrected, and more and more information comes to light as more evidence is dug up (i.e, military documents, old diaries, pictures, letters, etc). Look at whats going on with figures on the number of deaths in Iraq since the 2003 Invasion; one estimate puts it the total deaths at 601,000, while another puts it at 590,000, and 700,000, etc.

Regarding the torture theory, I simply cannot believe that Allied soldiers were able to torture EVERY single German soldier stationed at these sort of camps who surrendered. Note that these were not prominent Nazi leaders or officials; many were regular German men who fought for their country because they had to. Why torture them? And how do you torture over hundreds of thousands of troops? Especially considering most were simply released and allowed to finally go back to their homes and families all across Europe.

When it comes to believing someone going on theories or believing a German war veteran, someone who was actually THERE, proof and all, I'd choose the latter.

NOTE: And yes I double-posted. Sorry, my browser lagged.

Since the war crimes courts took judicial notice of the crimes, pleading innocent on the basis the crime did not occur was not an option. The strategy of many defendants was demonstrate non-involvement or distance themselves from the alleged crime. Backbiting and finger- pointing were also common. In order to save their lives, the accused placed blame on others- particularly people who were either dead, or had evaded capture by the Allies. The jailers of the Nazis used torture and threats of torture to obtain many confessions. Sometimes threats against the prisoners' families were made. For some, like Rudolf Hoess, sleep deprivation was used to get them to sign confessions. The contents of confessions such as those by Hoess and Kurt Gerstein are enough to simply throw them out as evidence. They contain internal contradictions, absurdities, and facts that are verifiably false. Nevertheless most high Nazi officials who survived to be tried disputed the charge that the final solution to the Jewish question involved their elimination though mass murder . Julius Streicher stated he believed it was technically impossible to kill that many people and simply did not believe it was true or even attempted.

[Kelso 4]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cc90 @ Apr 20 2007, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

If that were the only reason, I wouldnt believe in this as much as I do, what makes you like Capitalism?, and this form of government? Cause im sure you are not fond of bush.

I live in Canada.

Even as a neighbor, I hate Bush, and he's not the leader of my country.

He's basically a second Hitler... no, I'm not deriving that from those stupid LooseChange videos. Not exactly a second Hitler, just a much less wicked, and more shittier version. He's taking his sweet time with his plans.

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mesa @ Apr 20 2007, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I live in Canada.

Even as a neighbor, I hate Bush, and he's not the leader of my country.

He's basically a second Hitler... no, I'm not deriving that from those stupid LooseChange videos. Not exactly a second Hitler, just a much less wicked, and more shittier version. He's taking his sweet time with his plans.

How is he even close to Hitler? You must know nothing of Hitler himself, he would never attack his own nation, he put his nation above everything, Bush is a mexican jew lover, a disgrace to his own people, infact, I think your more evil then Hitler was.

[Ranger 0]

Lets not go there. I am a proud republican. Bush isnt my favorite. But he's doing his job. I would love to see you do better, without killing yourself from the stress.

[Guest Cranium]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cc90 @ Apr 20 2007, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I spread around truth and facts, you spread around slander.

w/e

U kno what Hitler had a thing against Jews because they 'caused problems' in his life. They really didn't. I will list why he hated Jews and why he was wrong.

1-His mother was ill and she died. The doctor was JEWISH and he blamed that on the Jews and it wasn't their fault.

2- He wanted to go to art school and didn't get in. The Dean of addmissions was JEWISH.

3-He had syphilis and was clinically insane.

[Guest Cranium]

And the Holocost was a tragic event that hitler used as revenge for the bad things that happened in his life. The Nazi's were cruel to mainly Jewish people and anyone who wasnt pure bred German whom he thought were the 'Master Race.'

Hitler also killed himself because he figured out what he was doing was wrong. They were influenced by the Propoganda. Over 6 million Jews died during the whole Holocost and their numbers will never be the same.

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cranium @ Apr 21 2007, 01:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

w/e

U kno what Hitler had a thing against Jews because they 'caused problems' in his life. They really didn't. I will list why he hated Jews and why he was wrong.

1-His mother was ill and she died. The doctor was JEWISH and he blamed that on the Jews and it wasn't their fault.

2- He wanted to go to art school and didn't get in. The Dean of addmissions was JEWISH.

3-He had syphilis and was clinically insane.

You have proof of number 3? can you give me sources? or are you just throwing anti nazi slang around?

The "holocaust" was because the jews were sabotaging trains supplying the eastern from the the German army, they were put into camps as a result. The jews declared war on Germany shortly there after

http://crashrecovery.org/freedman/judea_de...s_war_Large.png

Next, Hitler killed himself because he did not want to be tortured by the bolsheviks, nor live in a world without National Socialism, The 6 million figure is wrong, provide proof, oh wait, not even the experts can.

he Wannsee Protocol states the following: ======

II[...] The primary responsibility for the administrative handling of the Final Solution of the Jewish Problem will rest with the Reich Leader SS and the Chief of the German Police [...] -regardless of geographic boundaries.[...] The most important aspects are-

a. Forcing the Jews out of the various fields of the community life of the German people.

b. Forcing the Jews out of the living space of the German people. In execution of these efforts there was undertaken - as the only possible provisional solution - the acceleration of the emigration of the Jews from Reich territory on an intensified and methodical scale.[...]

III The emigration program has now been replaced by the evacuation of the Jews to the East as a further solution possibility, in accordance with previous authorization by the Fuehrer. [...] ======

Because the retreating Soviets had depopulated areas later captured by the advancing Nazis in 1941 by as much as a third, or twenty-two million people, the Nazis leadership decided to expel the Jews under their control to ghettos and labor camps in the east as a step toward a final expulsion to a Jewish homeland/reservation/ghetto-nation which was to be set up outside Europe after the war. The final solution was the expulsion of all Jews from Europe, not their murder. Even so, it did not matter to the Nazis if people died in the process. The Nazis believed such a move was needed because Jews were viewed as a threat to national morale and security during the war.

The six million figure is not based on any body count, records, or census. The number came into use during the war in Zionist propaganda and appears to have symbolic numerological significance. When the digits in six million are summed they add up to six. Six million is six times ten raised to the sixth power. In numerology the number six is considered 'perfect'. Six is the number of days God used to create the earth in the story of creation in the book of Genesis. It holds a special significance for the Jews who use the hexagram as their symbol. In the Holocaust itself, the six million figure was used in propaganda emanating from Zionist and Jewish organizations as early as 1941. Before the Russian Bolshevic revolution, anti-Czarist propaganda generated by Jews used the six million figure in describing the magnitude of the plight of Russian Jews under the Czar. The chief rabbi of Britain recently called for the re-examination of the six million figure which he considered totally arbitrary in nature.

[Guest Cranium]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cc90 @ Apr 20 2007, 06:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

How is he even close to Hitler? You must know nothing of Hitler himself, he would never attack his own nation, he put his nation above everything, Bush is a mexican jew lover, a disgrace to his own people, infact, I think your more evil then Hitler was.

And that's why he was such a tyrant and mistreated so many people. There was poverty and a negative influence on so many children in Germany, Poland, and Austria. He was arrested in the 1920's and wrote his book Mein Kumpf as a type of propaganda to seem like God. He was the Devil in disguise. No sane being could kill people because of race or religion. Take Anne Frank as an example she hid for 2 years before getting caught and she DIED in a concentration camp. As well as the rest of the annex, besides Mr. Frank.

Take the world population, there are people scarred by the memories of the horrible times. And you think Hitler and the rest of the Nazi's were good people. You know you have to be RURE-BRED German/Aryan to be considered a Nazi, don't you? Wouldn't you feel guilty if you killed a Jew, or anyone that was different than you?

[Guest Cranium]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cc90 @ Apr 20 2007, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

You have proof of number 3? can you give me sources? or are you just throwing anti nazi slang around?

The "holocaust" was because the jews were sabotaging trains supplying the eastern from the the German army, they were put into camps as a result. The jews declared war on Germany shortly there after

http://crashrecovery.org/freedman/judea_de...s_war_Large.png

Next, Hitler killed himself because he did not want to be tortured by the bolsheviks, nor live in a world without National Socialism, The 6 million figure is wrong, provide proof, oh wait, not even the experts can.

he Wannsee Protocol states the following: ======

II[...] The primary responsibility for the administrative handling of the Final Solution of the Jewish Problem will rest with the Reich Leader SS and the Chief of the German Police [...] -regardless of geographic boundaries.[...] The most important aspects are-

a. Forcing the Jews out of the various fields of the community life of the German people.

b. Forcing the Jews out of the living space of the German people. In execution of these efforts there was undertaken - as the only possible provisional solution - the acceleration of the emigration of the Jews from Reich territory on an intensified and methodical scale.[...]

III The emigration program has now been replaced by the evacuation of the Jews to the East as a further solution possibility, in accordance with previous authorization by the Fuehrer. [...] ======

Because the retreating Soviets had depopulated areas later captured by the advancing Nazis in 1941 by as much as a third, or twenty-two million people, the Nazis leadership decided to expel the Jews under their control to ghettos and labor camps in the east as a step toward a final expulsion to a Jewish homeland/reservation/ghetto-nation which was to be set up outside Europe after the war. The final solution was the expulsion of all Jews from Europe, not their murder. Even so, it did not matter to the Nazis if people died in the process. The Nazis believed such a move was needed because Jews were viewed as a threat to national morale and security during the war.

The six million figure is not based on any body count, records, or census. The number came into use during the war in Zionist propaganda and appears to have symbolic numerological significance. When the digits in six million are summed they add up to six. Six million is six times ten raised to the sixth power. In numerology the number six is considered 'perfect'. Six is the number of days God used to create the earth in the story of creation in the book of Genesis. It holds a special significance for the Jews who use the hexagram as their symbol. In the Holocaust itself, the six million figure was used in propaganda emanating from Zionist and Jewish organizations as early as 1941. Before the Russian Bolshevic revolution, anti-Czarist propaganda generated by Jews used the six million figure in describing the magnitude of the plight of Russian Jews under the Czar. The chief rabbi of Britain recently called for the re-examination of the six million figure which he considered totally arbitrary in nature.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holo...t/timeline.html

^^There is a Holocaust timeline!!!^^

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cranium @ Apr 21 2007, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

And that's why he was such a tyrant and mistreated so many people. There was poverty and a negative influence on so many children in Germany, Poland, and Austria. He was arrested in the 1920's and wrote his book Mein Kumpf as a type of propaganda to seem like God. He was the Devil in disguise. No sane being could kill people because of race or religion. Take Anne Frank as an example she hid for 2 years before getting caught and she DIED in a concentration camp. As well as the rest of the annex, besides Mr. Frank.

Take the world population, there are people scarred by the memories of the horrible times. And you think Hitler and the rest of the Nazi's were good people. You know you have to be RURE-BRED German/Aryan to be considered a Nazi, don't you? Wouldn't you feel guilty if you killed a Jew, or anyone that was different than you?

Wrong again buddy, There were jews in the wehrmacht, along with blacks, and muslums, please learn your facts before trying to debate against something you know nothing about.

He wrote mein kampf, so people could get an understanding of his thoughts, and what he wanted to accomplish, the jews were not killed for race or religion, but for sabotaging military efforts.

oh and, Otto Frank (anne franks father) was wanted in Germany on charges of embezzlement of money from his employer.

[Guest Cranium]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mm2290/join

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cranium @ Apr 21 2007, 02:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mm2290/join

Looks like you lost, holocaust never happend, anyone wanting to further debate, go ahead next please

[Guest Cranium]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cc90 @ Apr 20 2007, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Looks like you lost, holocaust never happend, anyone wanting to further debate, go ahead next please

Then why are there recorded documents and pictures and the fact my teachers uncle was in the holocost???

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Metal Militia @ Apr 21 2007, 02:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

wow CC90 my dad has been telling me this stuff for years i thought he was just dillusional to here this stuff from someelse is pretty crazy for me lol.

But it's true that there is alot of propoganda that the jews use with WW2. I am not saying Hitler was good because. I hate anyone who has that much hatred in them. I'm a pacifist.

In Russia WAAAAYYY more people died than in the Holocost but everyone thinks of hitler as worse. So ive always failed to see this logic lol

Hitler didnt have hate, he had loyalty to his people.

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cranium @ Apr 21 2007, 02:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Then why are there recorded documents and pictures and the fact my teachers uncle was in the holocost???

How often have we heard the phrase "bodies stacked like cordwood"? Certainly the photos of the sickening conditions in some of the Nazi concentration camps in the spring of 1945 were not faked, but they were taken out of context. Many concentration camp prisoners survived the war in very good physical condition. Others died for a variety of reasons. As World War Two approached its conclusion in Europe, Germany was a chaotic mess. The Allies controlled the sky all over Germany. One of the missions of the Allied pilots was to disrupt German communications as much as possible. This meant they shot at just about anything that moved. Trains with supplies bound to concentration camps were attacked just like any other train. Rail lines, roads, bridges, and airstrips were bombed and destroyed to prevent the supply and movement of the German army. As Germany collapsed upon itself, it suffered from many shortages. This included medicine, food and fuel. Not being the highest priority, concentration camps were affected as well. Some camps had not received supplies for days before the British or American troops arrived. Add to this the Germans retreat. Prisoners were evacuated from labor camps near the fronts and moved to other camps. As a result, the remaining camps became extremely overcrowded. Combine the overcrowding with the lack of food and medicine. Conditions became perfect for the outbreak of epidemics. This is what happened. Bergen Belsen which had been designed by the SS as a sick camp in the waning days of the war became the destination of many prisoners who were already sick from other camps. A typhus epidemic was raging there when the British captured the camp where an uncounted number-usually estimated to be between 10,000 and 30,000- of prisoners died primarily from disease. Similar circumstances contributed to the awful conditions discovered at Dachau, Buchenwald, and several other concentration camps. Germany's enemies used the scenes of dead and dying prisoners as documentary evidence of German malevolence. While the pictures are authentic, the films of bodies being bulldozed into trench graves do not tell the whole story. There was a war going on. It is in this context that these pictures need to be viewed. There are several reasons the Germans didn't simply release those in the camps. Many of the inmates were common criminals. Many were politically anti-German or anti-Nazi. Those infected with disease posed the threat of spreading the epidemics into the countryside if allowed to roam Germany. The healthy prisoners had nowhere to go. There was a war raging all around. Their homes were on the other side of the battle lines. Additionally, the likelihood that freed prisoners would form criminal gangs was too high for them to be released. Many were imprisoned because they were considered risks to security to begin with. Releasing them to roam the countryside was out of the question.

Many concentration camp inmates were imprisoned not simply for ethnic reasons. They were there because they were common criminals. Some of these people were not honest to begin with and used this opportunity to turn the tables on their former captors. It is a way to take revenge and to distract attention away from their own crimes.

B. Many concentration camp inmates were there for political reasons-- particularly communists. They might lie for ideological reasons. Alleging atrocities and abuse would help to discredit the Nazi regime and system that imprisoned them.. On a more personal level, communists and Jews who spent the war in a camp working for the Nazis need to justify their actions while in custody. This usually entailed working in German shops and factories for the Germans. Claiming heavy abuse, or involvement in sabotage are ways of satisfying questions of personal political hygiene.

C. Some former prisoners testified to abuse after their liberation from the Nazis simply because that was what was expected of them from their liberators. In the postwar trials some people became paid professional prosecution witnesses who were willing to testify to just about anything. Perjury by prosecution witnesses was not something that was punished-instead it was often encouraged.

[Guest cc90]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Metal Militia @ Apr 21 2007, 02:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

AND if you have studied WW2 you would realize why Hitler was so extremeist. The Threaty of Versellies made Germans VERY disgruntled.

So i would check that out Cranium's Kid

Its rediculous that teachers these days dont teach both sides of the story, and present false information, because of their own beliefs, this should be illegal. Ive had some black friends, and they are nice people, but, the majority of them are thievs and criminals, Id prefer them in their own country, not mine.

You dont agree with killing people trying to sabotage your war efforts, what would you have done? ship them to a foreign country so your soldiers can die when leaving? ship them to another part of the country so they can continue sabotage and assassination attemps? put them in camps and waste food and supplies to keep them alive, having them eventually outnumber guards?

and incase you were wondering most of the prisoners died from food shortages, already at a lack, late in the war as Germany was retreating to Berlin, the prisoners were without food for days, along with an already bad diet from short supplies, alot starved to death, the allies didnt liberate the camps until 3 or 4 days after the Germans retreated.

[Guest Cranium]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Metal Militia @ Apr 20 2007, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

well u know the facts are so distorted now that i dont know how many were true Criminals and how many were innocent people. know we did that with the Japanese in Manzanar and other camps but we have the facts that show that the conditions were fairly stable and decent. So you really dont' know what to beilive anymore. I'm thinking it falls somewhere in the middle of what you say and the jews say. But im sure hitler started just putting every jew in the camps at a certain point.

I dont even understand why it has to be kept rubbing in the German's faces. That's where you can get mad at the Jews. The japanese don't hate America because of the camps we put them in during WW2. Jews really gotta start dropping this hatred and grudge. This is the reason why most poeple hate the jews

but they bombed us in Pearl harbor and Germany took over France. We had EVERY right to do what we did!!!