Best production engine.

[Aereon 0]

jesus christ, can't we be civilized about this shit instead of flaming each other. This thread is hugely biased and should be seen as such, everyone has a different answer depending on what they believe a good engine should have. I honestly do not see the point in you guys taking up arms in this.

As far as I'm concerned there are a lot of truths in each of your arguments however swayed they may be due to personal bias's, I feel that there can be an argument made for new technologically improved motors, but when you look at the prius I honestly believe that it is the worst POS out there. It's decent when it comes to MPG, but the chevy aveo gets similar mpg with half the complexity. Sure its got the Toyota name attached to it, but WHEN you bring it in to get it worked on, you're gonna be paying out the ass for diagnosis.

[Guest some fag]

[Succulent 0]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noire @ Mar 20 2009, 01:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

You just say it has a lot of torque (which is good in certain situations but hardly throw you in the back of your seat)

Torque is the only thing that can throw you in the back of your seat.

Second, RPM has nothing to do with speed. Usually cars that rev high have a highly linear power curve. Aka poor torque.

[Guest some fag]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Succulent Meats @ Mar 20 2009, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Torque is the only thing that can throw you in the back of your seat.

Second, RPM has nothing to do with speed. Usually cars that rev high have a highly linear power curve. Aka poor torque.

Indeed. Lower revving engines generally make more torque, which means they can run a taller gear ratio to achieve the same speeds. High revving engines typically need a lower gear ratio for their lack of torque, and can't get up to speed as quickly because of it.

[Noire 17]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Succulent Meats @ Mar 20 2009, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Torque is the only thing that can throw you in the back of your seat.

Second, RPM has nothing to do with speed. Usually cars that rev high have a highly linear power curve. Aka poor torque.

Torque is good for the start, but unless you're running slicks you dont start to really get the pull till third gears because of tire traction. So it won't throw you so much in the back of the seat until you get up to where you can shift and not have your tires lose grip and feel the full power of the engine. When you shift into third from second, you generally stay in the higher RPM range which relys on power no? The reason I brough up RPM is because you can stay in the powerband while changing gears when you have a high revving engine and with cars that have vtech (almost all now) it can adjust to give it more power in that range.

[Succulent 0]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noire @ Mar 20 2009, 07:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Torque is good for the start, but unless you're running slicks you dont start to really get the pull till third gears because of tire traction. So it won't throw you so much in the back of the seat until you get up to where you can shift and not have your tires lose grip and feel the full power of the engine. When you shift into third from second, you generally stay in the higher RPM range which relys on power no? The reason I brough up RPM is because you can stay in the powerband while changing gears when you have a high revving engine and with cars that have vtech (almost all now) it can adjust to give it more power in that range.

With this statement I'm giving you the assumption that you don't even know what torque is.

Cars also have to stop from time to time, giving your power band spiel no credibility.

Also, vtech is a phone.

[Guest some fag]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noire @ Mar 20 2009, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Torque is good for the start, but unless you're running slicks you dont start to really get the pull till third gears because of tire traction. So it won't throw you so much in the back of the seat until you get up to where you can shift and not have your tires lose grip and feel the full power of the engine. When you shift into third from second, you generally stay in the higher RPM range which relys on power no? The reason I brough up RPM is because you can stay in the powerband while changing gears when you have a high revving engine and with cars that have vtech (almost all now) it can adjust to give it more power in that range.

Did your parents drop you? TORQUE IS THE ONLY REASON- REPEAT, THE *ONLY* REASON YOU ACCELERATE. HORSEPOWER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

[UltaPonch 80]

BMW S70/2

[IAREMEOWTH 0]

You should edit the op to say best production car engine for racing or something. I was under the impression you meant best production engine period. I know alot of people will associate that with fast cars, but I think more of being inexpensive, durable, easy to maintain. With those parameters, I vote Honda 50 for real. Tortoise vs the hare man.

[Noire 17]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Clickerson @ Mar 20 2009, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Did your parents drop you? TORQUE IS THE ONLY REASON- REPEAT, THE *ONLY* REASON YOU ACCELERATE. HORSEPOWER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

So those B18 engines with almost NO torque getting about 600 hp from turbos can't accelerate? The last 600 hp integra I saw ran 11s at the track. Almost no torque because of the turbo lag. So how does it accelerate?

As I also said, I care about going fast, so really having to stop and go traffic isnt really what I was taking into consideration when I made that statement. If you want to talk about stop and go traffic, how about the fact that when V-tec isnt activated it saves on gas because it's using a different setting so you can either floor it and get the max power, or you can softly use the pedal and save on gas. Other cars won't change anything except how much fuel is poured into the engine.

[Succulent 0]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noire @ Mar 21 2009, 12:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

So those B18 engines with almost NO torque getting about 600 hp from turbos can't accelerate? The last 600 hp integra I saw ran 11s at the track. Almost no torque because of the turbo lag. So how does it accelerate?

Turbos make torque. That's all they do.

Just to clear some confusion. I'm by all means a honda guy, ask Zeus.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noire @ Mar 21 2009, 12:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

As I also said, I care about going fast, so really having to stop and go traffic isnt really what I was taking into consideration when I made that statement. If you want to talk about stop and go traffic, how about the fact that when V-tec isnt activated it saves on gas because it's using a different setting so you can either floor it and get the max power, or you can softly use the pedal and save on gas. Other cars won't change anything except how much fuel is poured into the engine.

False.

Vtec was invented to make hondas engines more efficient. The engine uses a smaller cam profile at low RPM to enhance torque. Which essentially makes the car strain less in town, saving fuel. Now, there are three types of VTEC, there is VTEC, VTEC-E, and 3-Stage VTEC.

VTEC was invented to again, make the engine more efficient. It activates a higher cam profile letting more fuel and air into the cylinder for better combustion. Essentially, it uses a small percentage more fuel to accelerate faster, rather than accelerating slower and using the same fuel percentage. It saves about 33% more gas when accelerating, but uses more gas when maintaining speed. This vtec is in hondas red top breeds. Essentially any engine that has a red valve cover. B16a1, B18C5(GSR), H22, H2B, F22C...and some others.

VTEC-E was invented to do the same thing as regular VTEC at low RPM, but at high RPM, it cuts fuel and adds air. Benefitting acceleration slightly, but saving fuel. This is technically a leadfoot safety helmet. Whats funny is this is the majority of the VTEC's actually used in Hondas engines. And everyone makes a big deal about it.

3 Stage VTEC is only in SOHC hondas. The only SOHC's that dont have 3-stage VTEC is the D16z6, D16y8, and D16y7. Those engines have VTEC-E. 3 stage VTEC is when at low RPM, the engine only uses 12 valves. Then at mid range the engine uses 16 valves, and at high RPM it uses VTEC-E. This was only implemented for smoothness because on a single cam both Exhaust and Intake VTEC lobes are on the same cam, and it causes a pretty hard switchover.

Kay, I'm done educating.

[Noire 17]

Just to clear up some confusion, I never said I knew a lot about cars, I just state my opinion based on the facts presented to me.

When I read about turbo upgrades and such, they only bother to mention the horsepower gained from such application. Also thinking that torque is generally used in the lower rpms, I had assumed since turbo lags sucks power at the lower range where torque is more present, that since it gets more power in the higher RPM range, it really effects the horsepower more. Thank you for correcting me. I really like how you got your point across without any insults.

Also you forgot one engine that has a 3 stage V-tec system. The H22a1. I'm not sure it works as you mention, but it generally activates first at 5500 rpms then again at 6250 and again at 7000 (this is just based on how I see the tac jump. I forgot the EXACT rpms that it happens on (but I know its three because that's what I was told by the mechanic who owns a prelude and works on it all the time).

[Noire 17]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Succulent Meats @ Mar 20 2009, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Turbos make torque. That's all they do.

False.

Vtec was invented to make hondas engines more efficient. The engine uses a smaller cam profile at low RPM to enhance torque. Which essentially makes the car strain less in town, saving fuel. Now, there are three types of VTEC, there is VTEC, VTEC-E, and 3-Stage VTEC.

how about the fact that when V-tec isnt activated it saves on gas because it's using a different setting so you can either floor it and get the max power, or you can softly use the pedal and save on gas. Other cars won't change anything except how much fuel is poured into the engine.

Your explanation is a lot more specific, but doesnt it really say the same thing?

Also, from when I drive, my Vtec doesnt seem to kick in till around 5500 when you can hear the engine start to open up more. I mean its a really noticable change. I know that with toyotas it activated right away, but I always thought with hondas (mainly the B series engines) have Vtech activate at around 5500 rpms. Sohc engines I never really cared for.

[Guest some fag]

LOL@NOIRE!

[Succulent 0]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noire @ Mar 21 2009, 01:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

how about the fact that when V-tec isnt activated it saves on gas because it's using a different setting so you can either floor it and get the max power, or you can softly use the pedal and save on gas. Other cars won't change anything except how much fuel is poured into the engine.

Your explanation is a lot more specific, but doesnt it really say the same thing?

Also, from when I drive, my Vtec doesnt seem to kick in till around 5500 when you can hear the engine start to open up more. I mean its a really noticable change. I know that with toyotas it activated right away, but I always thought with hondas (mainly the B series engines) have Vtech activate at around 5500 rpms. Sohc engines I never really cared for.

VTEC and VTEC-E both instantly activate.

3 Stage VTEC instantly activates to 16, and instantly activates to VTEC.

[Purple Haze 0]

I-Vtec has the most noticable kick-over, for dohc 4cyl hondas.

[UltaPonch 80]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chronx @ Mar 21 2009, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I-Vtec has the most noticable kick-over, for dohc 4cyl hondas.

[Noire 17]

I have yet to drive an I-Vtec engine, but I heard they are great.

What did you mean it activates at 16?

When I said My prelude has 3 stage, it's kind of like...the tac jumps it's not a smooth power band. You can notice it more in 4th gear because you spend more time in it (5th gear is spd gov'n at 120). It would make three distinct changes in the sound of the engine when you reach those rpms. I don't know if this is only for the H series motors or not.

[Succulent 0]

I meant it instantly switches to 16v from 12v. And then instantly changes to VTEC.

[Guest some fag]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noire @ Mar 21 2009, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I have yet to drive an I-Vtec engine, but I heard they are great.

What did you mean it activates at 16?

When I said My prelude has 3 stage, it's kind of like...the tac jumps it's not a smooth power band. You can notice it more in 4th gear because you spend more time in it (5th gear is spd gov'n at 120). It would make three distinct changes in the sound of the engine when you reach those rpms. I don't know if this is only for the H series motors or not.

So you don't like your Prelude and the motor in it is obviously shit because it can't go 140?

[Santa114 0]

Turbos dont make lots of torque(whoever mentioned that earlier). Thats why there more HP efficient unlike other forms of forced induction like superchargers.

[Succulent 0]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Santa' @ Mar 21 2009, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Turbos dont make lots of torque(whoever mentioned that earlier). Thats why there more HP efficient unlike other forms of forced induction like superchargers.

The only thing turbos do is create torque.

Torque, displacement, theoretical rotating mass, inertia.

[Noire 17]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Clickerson @ Mar 21 2009, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

So you don't like your Prelude and the motor in it is obviously shit because it can't go 140?

Do you not know what a speed governor is? My motor can get to 140+ easily as 120 is the end of 4th gear (with plenty of power to spare). I chose to go with a better acclerating chip which happened to be spd gov at 120. I chose not to get rid of the 120 gov limit because I was tired of getting tickets going too fast (even though I still got a ticket at 120+, but I'm sure at 150 it would have been at lot worse). All that is require is to take the gov limit off and it can go back to owning your jeep engine (not that it doesnt already).

[Guest some fag]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noire @ Mar 22 2009, 01:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Do you not know what a speed governor is? My motor can get to 140+ easily as 120 is the end of 4th gear (with plenty of power to spare). I chose to go with a better acclerating chip which happened to be spd gov at 120. I chose not to get rid of the 120 gov limit because I was tired of getting tickets going too fast (even though I still got a ticket at 120+, but I'm sure at 150 it would have been at lot worse). All that is require is to take the gov limit off and it can go back to owning your jeep engine (not that it doesnt already).

No, but you see, that doesn't matter- if it can't do it stock, it must not be anything but a POS, right? A 4.0L I6 in a Prelude would demolish your little 4 banger. You don't give it credit because you haven't got a clue what it is or how it actually works.

Your little F22A L4 motor, depending on what model you have, has anywhere from 125 to 150 horsepower and roughly 140 lb-ft of torque.

The AMC 4.0L I6 makes 190 horsepower and 230 lb-ft of torque, with a LOT more power on tap from simple modifications, and will last twice as long as that F22A while still being dependable. There is a reason the 4.0L I6 has the reputation it does.

[Noire 17]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Clickerson @ Mar 22 2009, 03:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

No, but you see, that doesn't matter- if it can't do it stock, it must not be anything but a POS, right? A 4.0L I6 in a Prelude would demolish your little 4 banger. You don't give it credit because you haven't got a clue what it is or how it actually works.

Your little F22A L4 motor, depending on what model you have, has anywhere from 125 to 150 horsepower and roughly 140 lb-ft of torque.

The AMC 4.0L I6 makes 190 horsepower and 230 lb-ft of torque, with a LOT more power on tap from simple modifications, and will last twice as long as that F22A while still being dependable. There is a reason the 4.0L I6 has the reputation it does.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Clickerson @ Mar 16 2009, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

195 horsepower (rated) and about 245 pounds per square foot of torque that will easily run like new at 400K miles as long as it's well maintained (fluids changed and belts replaced at proper intervals).

By the way, I mean cars in general by full size cars, whereas a 50cc Honda engine would be found in a little scooter or chainsaw or something.

Funny you're engine is losing power!

Really, what kind of powerband does the AMC 4.0L I-6 have? Where does it rev limited kick in? 5500 rpms? Power on tap also depends on the transmission you have in it. Longer gears and that power on tap is going to go to waste. See stock my car can go 150 mphs, but I have a different chip put in. I could easily switch it out with the old ecu that I have that doesnt have the limitor. So my engine is far from stock.

Also, the transmission is a big part of getting that 190 hp to the ground (which isnt even what you get del to the ground, it's an old factory rating that wouldnt even be rated at 190 hp today). So you can't just claim that you can switch out the transmission and you're engine is going to perform the same. If it's set to tight gear ratios that's the best way your engine is going to perform. So please let me know how high your engine revs, what the gear settings are, how much compression the engine has, or if you can, a realistic rating of how much HP and Torque your engine has. The S2000 is a newer engine, also I never said the F22A was the best motor, I said that F20C. Also I said who cares about owning an engine that long. I would like ANYONE to post if they have own'd there car for 200k miles. You know how ong it would take to drive it for 400k miles? Unless you live in the middle of nowhere there isnt a reason to drive 400k miles in one car. So I really doubt you're old HP rated engine really can stand up to a S2000 if they were both put it one.

It's not always about numbers but how well the engine is coped with the transmission. So if we're talking stock (which is what the PRODUCTION of the engine is, not the best upgraded production engine) you have to put your original transmission with the engine. Otherwise you have no idea how it is going to perform. Again, let me know the compressions, the rev range, the powerband or anything else besides the factory rating and the rumors that it can last forever (unless you show me actual proof that it lasted that long without any major repairs done by a mechanic or the owner). I mean besides those two points (one not even being a realibe source anymore) what do you really have over the S2000 engine? I mean 125-150 HP What the fuck are you smoking? It gets around 247 hp you idiot. The lowest model of the S2000 (in america) is 237 hp (239 in japan). You should learn to read yourself as you have a hard time telling the difference between a 1 and a 2 (which is pretty much the same in ANY langauge).

I also said Size matters. Considering you're engine is TWICE the size of my engine yet, doesnt produce TWICE the amount of power, I would say its not as efficent as the F20C engine is. I mean come on, sounds like you cant even get your story straight on how much power it really has anyways.

EX:The Avalon was the first Toyota to use Dual VVT-i in the US market. This new 3.5-liter 2GR-FE V6 engine met ULEV certification with a power output of 280 hp (209 kW). Due to changes in the SAE's testing procedures, power dropped to 268 hp (200 kW) and torque dropped to 248 lb·ft (336 N·m). The new S2000 is rated with the new SAE's testing procedures, so Im sure it would have more power than stated if it were tested the same as yours.