ElectronicDrug 7496 Posted November 13, 2014 Giving cash is a stupid concept. Can't believe you fucking kids feel entitled to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) Giving cash is a stupid concept. Can't believe you fucking kids feel entitled to it. At what point did any one say we deserve cash or we are entitled to it? People even specifically mentioned removing cash and gaining more xp for kills or having xp given out (to in effect remove cash but not screw new players who are terrible at CS). JGWentworth even said he appreciated when cash was broken. We already have cash, we were just discussing if it was going to be changed (to reduce shop whoring which removes some problems, e.g. the necklace problem which is the point of this thread), then how should it be changed. If you think the concept is so stupid, explain why instead of calling everyone kids. It has obviously been debated before many times by the players (and surely the engineers) and clearly some value is currently seen in giving cash to benefit worse players, aid in leveling bad races, etc. I honestly didn't mind that much when cash was gone. But you won't catch me leveling a shitty race when that happens without doing new game+ race swapping to buy tomes. Edited November 13, 2014 by Face Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ElectronicDrug 7496 Posted November 13, 2014 Because the fact you can level a race without ever actually playing it is dumb. If it's a shitty race then it needs to be balanced. Remove cash and give a static amount of xp every round. Then you'll be able to get the same xp as tomes but will be required to actually play the race to level it. And noobs will be able to level it without needing to get a bunch of kills 1 Serif The Sheriff reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 13, 2014 Because the fact you can level a race without ever actually playing it is dumb. If it's a shitty race then it needs to be balanced. Remove cash and give a static amount of xp every round. Then you'll be able to get the same xp as tomes but will be required to actually play the race to level it. And noobs will be able to level it without needing to get a bunch of killsI agree with everything you said. Unfortunately they dont like to fix terrible races that nobody plays.. 1 4 Prosak, thorgot, skitt and 2 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
B-cock #1 641 Posted November 13, 2014 Inb4name Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skitt 1307 Posted November 13, 2014 I agree with everything you said. Unfortunately they dont like to fix terrible races that nobody plays..I really appreciate it when you downplay our (the warcraft 3 engineer VOLUNTEERS) work. 3 Serif The Sheriff, xmen and MrCoolness reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 13, 2014 I really appreciate it when you downplay our (the warcraft 3 engineer VOLUNTEERS) work.When I specifically approach engineers about a race I love that is clearly severely underpowered and nobody plays it (I'd bet the 5th highest player is less than lvl 40) and I'm told its fine, yes 1 MrCoolness reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
B-cock #1 641 Posted November 13, 2014 Oh Face, just stop. I agree that there are some bad races, but you're going about this in the wrong way.Mention the races so the engineers are aware, then move on. Its all you can do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 13, 2014 Oh Face, just stop. I agree that there are some bad races, but you're going about this in the wrong way.Mention the races so the engineers are aware, then move on. Its all you can do.I apologize, but its easy to get cynical when you level a race to 118 in hopes of a survivabiliy expertise that makes it playable and are rewarded with "its fine I'm not changing the race" 2 MrCoolness and Name reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrCoolness 547 Posted November 13, 2014 When I specifically approach engineers about a race I love that is clearly severely underpowered and nobody plays it (I'd bet the 5th highest player is less than lvl 40) and I'm told its fine, yes Are you talking about me? Because I listened to your opinion and valued your opinion and made changes accordingly. If you're still unhappy about my changes then tough luck, I'm not going to make your favorite race the most powerful race. 2 Serif The Sheriff and Gamer4125 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 13, 2014 I agree with everything you said. Unfortunately they dont like to fix terrible races that nobody plays..This comment was taken a lot more seriously than I originally intended. My opinion is that the race is terrible and anybody who played the race and compared it to other races could see this clear as day. I do not think the race is just bad, I think all of the skills are conflicting and I've explained this to anybody who would even pretend to listen. The general response is that it is fine and they cite reasons for the race being playable that don't really make sense. I consistently do better LEVELING races (orcish chieftan, human general, adventurer, shopkeeper, etc.) than I have ever done on steve master of war with it maxed. My opinions have been largely ignored and nobody has (to my knowledge) sat down and actually played the race. I feel like my opinions have had little thought put into them (while you did change the ult coolness, I still firmly believe when you get a "good ult" it is worse than a passive skill but it also has the chance to be bad and it only lasts 5 seconds, which makes me feel like there wasn't much consideration or testing) by all and I guess that bothers me more than anything. I understand it is volunteer work and my goal was never to blatantly insult anyone or cause a ruckus but I guess it is too late for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbulance 105 Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) in response to Coolness Face some shit is just not on the list of shit that needs to be fixed. Pyro has been broken forever and I asked and nothings ever really happened but I don't go to war on the forums about it. Last time I warred about the wcs server was the shitastic shopmenu and how it was fucking everything up. Pick your battles Edited November 13, 2014 by turbulance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 13, 2014 Face some shit is just not on the list of shit that needs to be fixed. Pyro has been broken forever and I asked and nothings ever really happened but I don't go to war on the forums about it. Last time I warred about the wcs server was the shitastic shopmenu and how it was fucking everything up. Pick your battlesYeah, it wasn't meant to be that aggressive but it was taken that way and I didn't back down rip Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Serif The Sheriff 73 Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) My opinion is that the race is terrible and anybody who played the race and compared it to other races could see this clear as day. I do not think the race is just bad, I think all of the skills are conflicting and I've explained this to anybody who would even pretend to listen. The general response is that it is fine and they cite reasons for the race being playable that don't really make sense. I consistently do better LEVELING races (orcish chieftan, human general, adventurer, shopkeeper, etc.) than I have ever done on steve master of war with it maxed. My opinions have been largely ignored and nobody has (to my knowledge) sat down and actually played the race. I feel like my opinions have had little thought put into them (while you did change the ult coolness, I still firmly believe when you get a "good ult" it is worse than a passive skill but it also has the chance to be bad and it only lasts 5 seconds, which makes me feel like there wasn't much consideration or testing) by all and I guess that bothers me more than anything.Just want to point out, the reason the race is called Steve...Master of War is because there was an event held seeing who could level the highest as the three Master races and during that whole thing I don't think I ever heard any complaints about any of three races until now that you decided Master of War is your favorite. And that is also after there was a large group of people competing to level those races so you aren't the only person who has sat down and actually played the race. It has received plenty of play time from plenty of people. Also, you just compared leveling that race to leveling Orcish Chieftan, Human General, Adventurer, and Shopkeeper which are all top-tier races on the server and should be easier to level because they are all really strong. Edited November 14, 2014 by Serif The Sheriff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) Just want to point out, the reason the race is called Steve...God of War is because there was an event held seeing who could level the highest as the three God races and during that whole thing I don't think I ever heard any complaints about any of three races until now that you decided God of War is your favorite. And that is also after there was a large group of people competing to level those races so you aren't the only person who has sat down and actually played the race. It has received plenty of play time from plenty of people. Also, you just compared leveling that race to leveling Orcish Chieftan, Human General, Adventurer, and Shopkeeper which are all top-tier races on the server and should be easier to level because they are all really strong.It has been HEAVILY nerfed since then I was told (by steveand117) but I don't know because I wasn't there Edited November 13, 2014 by Face Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrCoolness 547 Posted November 14, 2014 It has been HEAVILY nerfed since then I was told (by steveand117) but I don't know because I wasn't there lol what? It was never touched until you asked for a buff, which I decided to go through with so people would be more interested in playing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurtleFrenzy 2612 Posted November 14, 2014 The Master races have never really had any issues to begin with. They're all strong in their own respects. Simplistic in style, yes, but not to the point to which they aren't viable. *something something make Take the Point a useful skill pls* Is perhaps the only thing ever mentioned about them. Engineers appreciate the feedback in terms of trying to perfect their works, but you don't have to be forcefully demanding about it. Everyone who puts time into the server does so of their own voilition. No need to sidetrack the original intent of the thread in order to take your feelings about responses to your specific criticisms out on the people who've kept the server alive since its conception. 3 Serif The Sheriff, MrCoolness and Name reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 14, 2014 lol what? It was never touched until you asked for a buff, which I decided to go through with so people would be more interested in playing it.Is it from CSS as well? I was told it used to have infinite ammo (or near infinite) and raw +dmg (like 10 or something) as opposed to a % Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xmen 983 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Only reason the race had infinite ammo was cause the ammo regen was broken for a short period of time during the event Edited November 14, 2014 by xmen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Serif The Sheriff 73 Posted November 14, 2014 Is it from CSS as well? I was told it used to have infinite ammo (or near infinite) and raw +dmg (like 10 or something) as opposed to a %A lot of the races that are on the server that were in Source have been nerfed from Source to GO. As I have been told several times, you can't really compare the GO races to the Source races because the balance was different between the servers and if the Source races were added to the GO server as is they would be OP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrCoolness 547 Posted November 14, 2014 Is it from CSS as well? I was told it used to have infinite ammo (or near infinite) and raw +dmg (like 10 or something) as opposed to a % No, I made the race completely from scratch, same with the other two master of races Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Face 1910 Posted November 14, 2014 No, I made the race completely from scratch, same with the other two master of racesWell that is just confusion on my part I guess. I'll just sit on it for now cause I've done a pretty good job at being an ass. 1 MrCoolness reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Battlecrab 22 Posted November 15, 2014 While we are on the subject, we should broach a larger issue here. Many races have items restricted that when lookin in conjuction with other races makes you go huh? For example, Adventurer (top tier race) is restricted from everything more or less but Unholy Paladin (top tier race) can go about and buy willy nilly. I think the shopmenu should be used as a tactical advantage, depending on map, etc. I love cash but with it incoming every 5 rounds or so, I can afford to buy the +50 hp on adventurer and completely skip the endurance skill. Also, I think some of the prices are out of whack. $1000 for chainmail/claws seems very low given their potentcy. Or at least, keep the shopmenu restrictions rules constant (i.e. if your race has any extra damage, no claws for you) etc. etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xmen 983 Posted November 15, 2014 Why would u skip endurance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Battlecrab 22 Posted November 15, 2014 xmen, I asked the same question of a fellow Adventurer (a maxed one) last night. His point was that endurance wasn't that important when you could buy a Perpiat of Health on pretty much every round with the 16Ks coming in every few rounds. Those 20 points could be put to use in other skills (in this case, 10 points bash, 10 points vamp). After trying a reduced endurance "build" I can see their point. Cash does have the effect of making most shopmenu items basically free, especially when combined with good betting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites