The Gnat, should it stay or should it go?

[turbulance 105]

I dont like the idea because generally the gnat is the last to die because you cant kill the fuck

Edited January 28, 2014 by turbulance

[Rayne 4478]

I think this is a great race becuase people either love it or rage and it is pretty 50/50.

 

Is there anyone meh about it or on the fence?

I think this is a great race becuase people either love it or rage and it is pretty 50/50.

 

Is there anyone meh about it or on the fence?

So you want people to rage now... What the hell is going on, it's obvious the majority of people want rid, rid it! Ill stab you in the gabber.

[MrCoolness 547]

Looking at the poll results (50/50 at the time right now) I don't think it should stay. I don't believe that putting any other race on this poll would come even close to that margin and that's the way it should be. 

[centran 4457]

oh I disagree.... lets start a polls for some of the races people consider whore races and see if they go 50/50 too

[MrCoolness 547]

oh I disagree.... lets start a polls for some of the races people consider whore races and see if they go 50/50 too

 

lol inb4 wind ranger

 

edit: too much dota 2, i mean ranger of the woods

[Rootbeer 1293]

oh I disagree.... lets start a polls for some of the races people consider whore races and see if they go 50/50 too

 

I have to disagree on this one, all of the races that have been slowly worked on over the course of the past weeks have greatly been in line with our server's direction of the mod. While Ranger of the Woods would come to mind as one of our e-z go-to whore races, I feel even that one is balanced well for our server.

[HCMikey 248]

I wish there was a third option in the poll. I don't think it it should be taken off the server, but I don't think it should remain in its current state. Deadly Decoy should've left but gnat should stay, all gnat really needs is some type of kill skill so it's not just a utility race.

 

Refine it and slowly the server will accept it.

Edited January 28, 2014 by HornyCat

[DrKhanMD 74]

I mean I understand the concept of the race, and think it's really well designed for its intended purpose. That being said I find it incredibly annoying, the speed + evasion + disarm means that it can basically force one player to juggle their guns indefinitely. Currently the way I've been playing against it is to jump on a box and simply ignore it until all the other players are dead, at which point it just gets ganked by the people remaining on my team. 

 

It's a well designed, well coded, and a well thought out race. I just don't think it fits with the current profile of all the other races. It would be like adding characters from superhero mod to WCS. Yeah they are well made, coded, etc, but them simply don't fit with the general feel/gameplay of the existing races on the server.

 

Make the fabled wcs2 server I've heard so much about.

Edited January 28, 2014 by DrKhanMD

[Ika 320]

I really don't like how it forces the pistol to drop too. Basically means that if a Gnat gets on you you really cant fight back if there's anyone else around.

[Eddy 3887]

instead of removing it, balance it. Everyone should suggest what they think needs to be changed with the race and once some of the changes are made, take a step back and see if the race fits in the server.

 

 

I personally think the attack speed needs to be lowered and so does the evasion.

 

IMO this race doesn't need to have a killing skill at all and I don't feel like the point to every race on the server should only be to kill. When I hop on priest or holy paladin, I don't play it at all to get kills, instead I play them as a support like they were intended to be.

 

 

I think after a nerf the race will be better balanced and people will change their minds about the race being removed from the server.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Eddy

[Rayne 4478]

So there's a 50/50 vote, meaning it's obviously hated by quite a lot of people in the community, but you will not remove it... Why even make this poll?!

[Eddy 3887]

So there's a 50/50 vote, meaning it's obviously hated by quite a lot of people in the community, but you will not remove it... Why even make this poll?!

because usually the option that wins in a vote wins by a majority vote, this vote is even, so instead of removing the race all together we should balance it.

[Rayne 4478]

The comments don't look very 50/50 to me...all I can see is people saying get rid of it, and the only viable idea wasn't used... 

 

I can guarantee if EVERYBODY from the server came on to vote, it'd be voted against. 

Edited January 28, 2014 by Rayne

[Eddy 3887]

The comments don't look very 50/50 to me...all I can see is people saying get rid of it, and the only viable idea wasn't used... 

 

I can guarantee if EVERYBODY from the server came on to vote, it'd be voted against. 

you don't even play the server, so how do you know how the majority of the server feels?

[Rayne 4478]

I do play the server, not often because currently I have a lack of graphics card. 

 

I've also been in and around the mod for years so I think I know a shit race when I see one. 

 

Thanks for adding nothing of help into the thread besides trying to belittle my obviously accurate opinion. 

[Eddy 3887]

but I simply pointed out you misunderstood how votes work, whether the people who are for the race are commenting shouldn't matter, they voiced their opinion with their vote. I also remember you telling me you couldn't play because your PC broke, so I assumed you don't play the server, I'm not trying to belittle your opinion at all, I'm simply trying to get people to give this race a chance, Centran took the time to code it for the sever to enjoy and I feel like with some changes to the race the server will enjoy it, but you coming out and saying we're refusing to remove the race is incorrect (look at deadly decoy), as you can see by the vote some people do in fact enjoy this race, therefore I feel like we should give it a chance.

[Rayne 4478]

but I simply pointed out you misunderstood how votes work, whether the people who are for the race are commenting shouldn't matter, they voiced their opinion with their vote. I also remember you telling me you couldn't play because your PC broke, so I assumed you don't play the server, I'm not trying to belittle your opinion at all, I'm simply trying to get people to give this race a chance, Centran took the time to code it for the sever to enjoy and I feel like with some changes to the race the server will enjoy it, but you coming out and saying we're refusing to remove the race is incorrect (look at deadly decoy), as you can see by the vote some people do in fact enjoy this race, therefore I feel like we should give it a chance.

 

Taking all of that into consideration, I go back to my point concerning the race changes, the only good change this race could have, was ignored (if the changes have been worked on since then I apologize, just calling it how I see it) There was one good idea for this race, made by an engineer, who then just did something else to it equally as bad...

 

I fully appreciate he took the time to code it, I used to code races and understand the amount of time it takes to do it, but you have good ideas and result, whilst having bad ideas and results. This, unfortunately, is a bad idea that is obviously pissing a lot of people off.

 

Regardless if 50% of people are voting yes, you are then causing the other half of the population to be fucked off and rage (not my words).

 

If this race was removed, the 50% of people who wanted it, won't care in a day...where as if it stay's you are going to be pissing off 50% of your community, is that a valid number for you? 

 

EDIT: Wow my grammar was awful reading that back... 

Edited January 28, 2014 by Rayne

[centran 4457]

Why do votes in the server have to be a majority and I am not just talking about 1 spam.... hmmm? anyway. It will most likely not be getting a kill skill. The only "kill skill" it has received is to take out other gnats. The idea of getting skills to kill will be put into a new race.

 

Most of the complaints are from the shear concept of this race (ie, it can't kill!) rather then balance issues. People just don't like the concept or they do. That is the controversy.

 

The nerf hammer is being held high on this one and it is about to come down. I am thinking invis needs to come doewn 10% and speed only slightly. If you want a bigger nerf to speed then other compromises need to be considered such as immunity to roots.

 

As for nerfing the disarm. Again we can have a compromise. I am thinking of a way to balance it so there is a point to sticking around and knifing your victim. Not just hit and run which seems to be the case with the gnat. My idea is that it will be harder to disarm a pistol BUT once the player has his knife out there is a chance for a good duration bash if they get knifed again(with their knife out). If we want to go insane!!!!!! INSANE!!!!! then once a player is bashed the gnat will do 5x damage! Wow a whole 5 damage a hit! Holy crap! Tell me what you guys think about this compromise. I think it would allow for those insane enough to try to go 1v1 but still keep the idea of the support role. You can either wait for your team and run in disarming primaries and be the distraction you where meant to be or run around searching out that lone player.

Edited January 28, 2014 by centran

[Rayne 4478]

That does sound better, but I still think it's going to boil down to people trying to level it and actually play it. You know as well as I do, players like their races due to the unique ways they can kill other players.

 

It's all good fun disarming somebody a few times, but dying over and over again and getting next to no kills, or even surviving and getting no kills. It'll get played a couple of times, then left in the dark.

 

Your original idea of making it do more damage depending on the amount of team mates left is a much more solid idea in my opinion, that'd actually make it quite a fun race to play. Also giving the idea of excitement at the end of a round. 

 

EDIT: I'm really not trying to bash your work, so I apologize if that's how it's coming across, I'm just trying to explain how the players are going to look at it. We both know that server is never going to cater for teamwork, save a rare few players on TS together. 

Edited January 28, 2014 by Rayne

[Vexium 35]

i dont get how someone who hasnt even played the race on the server thinks they have some sort of valid opinion on this subject.

[Rayne 4478]

I don't get how someone who hasn't even played the race on the server thinks they have some sort of valid opinion on this subject.

 

Then you obviously haven't read any of my posts have you. Just because I haven't played something doesn't mean I don't understand how a race works.

 

[experiencerant] I have played WCS since 07 and have coded races for almost 2 years, I have played cs:s for 7-8 years and I have been in this community for a similar length of time[/experiencerant]

 

I understand how races work, what concepts and ideas work and how players take them. Therefore, my opinion is more than valid you narrow minded troll. You have added nothing to this thread with that post except your blind ignorance. Now kindly turn around, exit the room and close the door.

 

EDIT: Oh sorry! I forgot you've been here for 6 months! 

 

Edited January 28, 2014 by Rayne

[Vexium 35]

you havent even played the race in-game. your opinion is pretty much void of any experience with the race itself, regardless of how much you've played/coded for war3/wcs.

 

or are you that blind to your own bias. sorry i have to point out the obvious, but you should play the race before making comments on how the gameplay actually feels.

 

oh and your experience in coding isnt equivalent to experience in balancing for gameplay.

 

how long has it been since you even logged into the server, to know what the current roster is? sorry, ive never even seen you on, so if you have played i never noticed. not to mention you dont do diddly squat for the server other than offer your opinion of it despite never playing on it. so im sorry if im a bit confused as to why you think your arrogant attitude has any worth to this discussion.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Vexium

[Rayne 4478]

you havent even played the race in-game. your opinion is pretty much void of any experience with the race itself, regardless of how much you've played/coded for war3/wcs.

 

or are you that blind to your own bias. sorry i have to point out the obvious, but you should play the race before making comments on how the gameplay actually feels.

 

oh and your experience in coding isnt equivalent to experience in balancing for gameplay.

 

how long has it been since you even logged into the server, to know what the current roster is?

 

I logged onto the server on Saturday, so that is that part answered.

 

Also, what has been posted in this thread so far? The fact that people don't like a race that constantly disarms, a race that can't actually deal damage and a race that overall pisses players off?

 

I think that my ability to read these complaints/comments and structure them into a post which is more than valid and in no way bias (if you took the time to read my points, I said that changes COULD be made to keep the race)

 

Once again, your point is completely invalid and makes no sense, as you obviously haven't read/understood my points and your only point is that I don't play the server very often...get your tongue out of the engineer's ass, when critiscm is given (not insults) it is given to help better something that needs fixing...

 

I repeat, Now kindly turn around, exit the room and close the door.

 

I won't reply to you again because you are starting to wind me up and I really cant be bothered raging at somebody with no common sense what so ever.

[Wintergreen 1603]

you havent even played the race in-game. your opinion is pretty much void of any experience with the race itself, regardless of how much you've played/coded for war3/wcs.

 

or are you that blind to your own bias. sorry i have to point out the obvious, but you should play the race before making comments on how the gameplay actually feels.

 

oh and your experience in coding isnt equivalent to experience in balancing for gameplay.

 

how long has it been since you even logged into the server, to know what the current roster is? sorry, ive never even seen you on, so if you have played i never noticed. not to mention you dont do diddly squat for the server other than offer your opinion of it despite never playing on it. so im sorry if im a bit confused as to why you think your arrogant attitude has any worth to this discussion.

Are you the vex that when ranger of the woods was released (pre nerf) said that it was an "ok" race at best? If so Your voice is pretty god damn worthless.

[Vexium 35]

to rayne:

 

i read your posts. all of them. not sure if you read mine, since u seem to assume everyone in this thread is against the idea of this race - which is clearly not the case.

 

if you joined the server, you would see that theres more vocal support to keep the race than remove it. but maybe a vote in-game is needed to show that, this is just what ive noticed from playing since it was added.

 

and im not going to argue with someone who thinks their wisdom on class balance circumvents the necessity to experience something firsthand in order to have a proper assessment of it.

 

so you can kindly walk yourself out that same door until you play-test the race to max lvl 35.

----

 

to wintergreen:

 

i dont remember saying that, but when i initially played ranger, it was a very strong class. it still is. so im not sure where ur coming from on that.