Trickster Assassin

[Vexium 35]

ITT: lemon is fucking salty as shit from getting wrecked by trickster assassin and has to take it out on us because he cant find a means to compensate for his own shit play.

 

i would discuss this further but we've already outlined how ridiculous you are being

[BLiNDBoi 930]

Oh man tl;dr whole thread, leave it as legal k thanks.

[Behos 103]

If trickster is behind an object and is hidden from sight a red dot will still show up on the minimap. Resolved

 

This isn't the point. You might know where he is, IF that's even the case, but you can't effectively shoot back at him because it's impossible.

 

 

ITT: lemon is fucking salty as shit from getting wrecked by trickster assassin and has to take it out on us because he cant find a means to compensate for his own shit play.

 

i would discuss this further but we've already outlined how ridiculous you are being

 

 

After I've brought up very good counter-arguments to what was a pitiful attempt at trying to "save" your favorite race, all you resort to do is trolling without any substance or effort. Pathetic. Horrible post.

 

Oh man tl;dr whole thread, leave it as legal k thanks.

 

Not reading the thread and putting up his vote in an important discussion. Horrible post.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Lemon Chan

[BLiNDBoi 930]

Just saying, was legal in WCS and never was a problem, this is just a qq thread to me. Sorry for making you butthurt lemon lol.

[Behos 103]

Just saying, was legal in WCS and never was a problem, this is just a qq thread to me. Sorry for making you butthurt lemon lol.

 

It's about time it changes. This is a valid complaint thread. Are you going to argue or just pass by and think you are making a difference? Please bring substance to your posts. Horrible post once again.

[TurtleFrenzy 2612]

It's the equivalent of being above textures. You're in a position in which you can see the enemies while they can't see you, and you can fire at them without risking too much return fire.

Though i'm conflicted. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it's addressed as a using of the model change in a strategic manner, but excusing it as an exploit on the basis of "trickster's weak as is" is stupid.

Edited January 17, 2014 by TurtleFrenzy

[Behos 103]

It's the equivalent of being above textures. You're in a position in which you can see the enemies while they can't see you, and you can fire at them without risking too much return fire.

 

 

This should be the nail in the coffin.

 

 

.

Though i'm conflicted. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it's addressed as a using of the model change in a strategic manner, but excusing it as an exploit on the basis of "trickster's weak as is" is stupid.

 

And so flying above textures could be considered using your unique(flying) skill in a strategic manner, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still infringing the rules set in place. If both of the issues are similar, then Trickster Assassin being able to shoot from where he cannot be shot should be banned as well.

[TurtleFrenzy 2612]

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And so flying above textures could be considered using your unique(flying) skill in a strategic manner, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still infringing the rules set in place.

Personally, I don't have a problem with that (being on top of high places on/above the map. Seeing through textures however is a exploit of the established map, so that's a no in my book.) but yes, I agree that if we 're going to abide by that rule though, then yes this should be a rule.

[BLiNDBoi 930]

This is still a qq thread that has very little to do with the race itself, if anything its the enemy teams fault for letting trickster to camp in a spot. The next part that is at fault is the map, legal in my book. Besides the race isn't that strong because it is stuck with dualies.

[Behos 103]

This is still a qq thread that has very little to do with the race itself

 

It's the only race where this problem is occuring.

 

if anything its the enemy teams fault for letting trickster to camp in a spot. 

 

It's not anyone's fault but the trickster if someone decides, on his own, to camp there and exploit his player model. Is it the the enemy team's fault if they allow a skywalker to fly free? No, that's just silly.

 

The next part that is at fault is the map, legal in my book. 

 

The map has nothing to do with it for obvious reasons. We wouldn't have it happen on those maps if people wouldn't do it.

 

 Besides the race isn't that strong because it is stuck with dualies.

 

Is that an argument IN favor of trickster exploitation? Please read the thread next time so you don't waste my time, I've already addressed that point. Buff it if it's underwhelming, but don't allow someone to bypass what should be established as rules because of the race's own weakness.

[BLiNDBoi 930]

Fine fine, my opinion is my own.

[Vexium 35]

I'm going to lay this out in simple terms: there are countless locations in which trickster can manipulate this so-called exploit, which is really just a trait of the class being a barrel model.

 

As I said before, it is unfair and unwise to restrict this ability of Trickster, because you are literally forcing the player to be conscious of where they are on the map in case they aren't breaking a rule. It's not the same as flight/teleport and going up to where you see through textures. That is something that intentionally occurs because a player chooses to go there.

 

Trickster is moving around on the map and trying to find a good location to camp in. You cannot just restrict the locations of where the class can go - that is essentially what you are calling for. If you begin to enforce that, you have to enforce invis players not being allowed to camp against the "full invis" textures. Is it technically right to enforce? Yes. Is it feasible, or fair to the player who is just trying to play and may not notice what they have done? Absolutely not.

 

Case in point, again, there is no legitimate/appropriate way to enforce this without infringing on any given player's normal gameplay decisions.

 

TL;DR Fuck off lemon, you qq too much over something no one else gives a damn about (for good reason)

Edited January 18, 2014 by Vexium

[xmen 983]

BLABLALBLABLALBA

They must have changed it then since in css the player model was the same.. I remember catching hackers twitching to the tricksters real head. + Imo it's not that big of a deal since most races have a longjump/ teleport and as soon as he fires you know where he is with sound and the muzzle flash :3

 

When did you become bad enough to get owned by trickster?

Edited January 18, 2014 by xmen

[Name 2616]

[Behos 103]

 

As I said before, it is unfair and unwise to restrict this ability of Trickster, because you are literally forcing the player to be conscious of where they are on the map in case they aren't breaking a rule. It's not the same as flight/teleport and going up to where you see through textures. That is something that intentionally occurs because a player chooses to go there.

 

 

And a player will choose to position himself, being fully aware of his player model, in order to not be able to be shot. Once it's in the rules, as it should be, people WILL have to be conscious of that rule, just like they are being conscious of not stepping out of the boundaries of the map. It's quite simple seeing as you are shorter and shouldn't be hiding behind such material where you would be untouchable, basically. 

 

 

Trickster is moving around on the map and trying to find a good location to camp in. You cannot just restrict the locations of where the class can go - that is essentially what you are calling for. If you begin to enforce that, you have to enforce invis players not being allowed to camp against the "full invis" textures. Is it technically right to enforce? Yes. Is it feasible, or fair to the player who is just trying to play and may not notice what they have done? Absolutely not.

 

 

Of course I can, you are under the impression that people won't realize that they can't be shot, which is totally false knowing of the race's short player model. You said it yourself, the race is about finding a good location to camp in, so of course they would be conscious of where they are trying to hide on the map, that would be the very first thing they think about, just like someone with a flying ability trying to gain an advantage by positioning himself outside of the map. None of us are being possessed by ethereal entities, we are all fully aware of what we are doing. What's this thing about invis players allowed to camp against "full invis" textures? I've never heard or seen such a thing. Can they be shot? Are they in the map? Then it doesn't matter, because you can strike back. That's the whole point of invisiblity: blending in.

 

 

Case in point, again, there is no legitimate/appropriate way to enforce this without infringing on any given player's normal gameplay decisions.

 

 

I can see it being a bother to lazy admins, but it definitely has to be enforced, because, ultimately, they are shooting you from a position from which you cannot strike back at them, regardless of your race.

 

 

Originally I saw the Trickster Assassin's class main ability to be able to hide WITHIN the barrels of the map or simply creating those barrels himself and hiding between those, and that's how it should be, without any abusing of any mechanics whatsoever.

 

 

 

They must have changed it then since in css the player model was the same.. I remember catching hackers twitching to the tricksters real head. + Imo it's not that big of a deal since most races have a longjump/ teleport and as soon as he fires you know where he is with sound and the muzzle flash :3

 

 

It might have been then, but it's not the case anymore. Not everyone has longjump and/or teleport. You might hear him and see his muzzle flash, but you cannot shoot back.

 

 

Can't say I expected much out of you anyway.

 

 

Case in point, if we don't allow people to be shooting from outside map textures on the basis that they cannot shoot back, which is perfectly fair and logical, then we shouldn't allow Trickster Assassin to be hiding behind textures from where he cannot be shot as well. Both of those are conscious actions and should be enforced equally.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Lemon Chan

[Vexium 35]

i get the feeling you've never actually played trickster beyond maxing it. it is hard to tell if your model can/cant be seen by the opposing team. people will unconsciously do this while camping. they might even be moving around and just happen to be at the right height for it to happen. it is the same thing with certain wall textures causing invisible players to become fully invisible. it is a fault of the map and not the player, and you cannot blame the player for trying to find a normally adequate place to put themselves.

 

trying to enforce this rule would literally be a process of naming every spot on the map where it is unavailable, and that is a waste of time, just as it would be if we tried to enforce no invis players being allowed to abuse 100%-invis-causing textures. its just not feasible.

[xmen 983]

trying to enforce this rule would literally be a process of naming every spot on the map where it is unavailable,

Now that aint true though

[Behos 103]

i get the feeling you've never actually played trickster beyond maxing it. it is hard to tell if your model can/cant be seen by the opposing team. people will unconsciously do this while camping. they might even be moving around and just happen to be at the right height for it to happen.

 

And that's just fine. It's up to the player's discretion first and the admin's afterwards. Honestly, it isn't hard at all to realize that your tiny model is hidden behind that box and untouchable, or positioned so that they cannot see what should have been your head, had you been a normal csgo player model. There are going to be warnings and people will learn, if they couldn't deduce it by themself. While people are at it, they might as well play the race the way it was meant to be played: hiding AMONGST the barrels of the map or even amongst the ones that you have spawned.

 

 it is the same thing with certain wall textures causing invisible players to become fully invisible. it is a fault of the map and not the player, and you cannot blame the player for trying to find a normally adequate place to put themselves.

 

 

 I still don't get the connection between those two points. I don't think there are any. It's not the fault of the map if there is a box you can hide behind as Trickster Assassin without being shot, it's the fault of the player for abusing that possibility, just like it's the fault of the player if he decides to go over textures and shoot from there. The maps weren't made for war3, you have to adapt and apply the rules.

 

 

trying to enforce this rule would literally be a process of naming every spot on the map where it is unavailable

 

Yeah, no. You should be aware. If you aren't, specs will tell you, or even the guy you cheated of 1 death.

[MisterTurkes 544]

im going to be entirely honest lemon. You do just sound really salty.

[Behos 103]

im going to be entirely honest lemon. You do just sound really salty.

 

I am not, I'm just fighting for what's right.

 

Horrible post.

[Name 2616]

I am not, I'm just fighting for what's right.

 

Horrible post.

fighting for what's right

 

That'll go right up there with "I'm a free spirit" as the stupidest things I've ever heard lemon say

[SneakyB 6]

Once I realize I'm playing against a trickster and I hear the sound of duelies, its just a matter of kiting and calling out their location. Its not an over-powered race, and it relies on relatively weak weapons. Trickster isn't difficult, even with the whole "hide behind a wall but you can't see them back" ordeal.

[Behos 103]

fighting for what's right

 

That'll go right up there with "I'm a free spirit" as the stupidest things I've ever heard lemon say

 

I can just bring up your post history, pick pretty much any post and those would honestly be the stupidest things I've ever heard anyone say.

 

Also a horrible post, I don't expect you to have any kind of opinion though, knowing how much of a sheep you are.

 

Once I realize I'm playing against a trickster and I hear the sound of duelies, its just a matter of kiting and calling out their location. Its not an over-powered race, and it relies on relatively weak weapons. Trickster isn't difficult, even with the whole "hide behind a wall but you can't see them back" ordeal.

 

I'm not quite sure where you wanted to go with this or if you took a bong hit before finishing it but I would really like you to take a clear stance on the issue

[Vexium 35]

wait is lemon chan behos? because that would make a lot of sense.

 

anyway no enforcing something that is everywhere on the map is dumb. full-invis spots aren't enforced a reason: there are too many unintentional camp spots that cause it, and a player often simply chooses it out of preference rather than to utilize an exploit. same goes for trickster. ur line of reasoning is: oh lets have the player use trickster by hiding behind its barrels... in plain sight... why should it have to do that? ur gimping the class since every other class can use those so-called exploit spots without a problem. again, you're restricting map movement on the physical map and that is unnecessary and restrictive to gameplay.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Vexium

[Behos 103]

wait is lemon chan behos? because that would make a lot of sense.

 

anyway no enforcing something that is everywhere on the map is dumb. full-invis spots aren't enforced a reason: there are too many unintentional camp spots that cause it, and a player often simply chooses it out of preference rather than to utilize an exploit. same goes for trickster. 

 

It's not everywhere on the map, it should be clear-cut. A player will not hide behind the ledge of T spawn ramp into B tunnel out of preference, he's going to do it to exploit the model of the race. Stop comparing the two, they are 2 different issues. You can at least shoot back if whatever race is against a full-invis texture, whatever that is. You can tell them to not hide there, just like you would with Trickster. I haven't seen any of those being abused and they are clearly not as prominent as this issue.

 

 oh lets have the player use trickster by hiding behind its barrels... in plain sight... why should it have to do that? 

 

Because it was coded for that reason. It wasn't coded with its model being abusable in mind.

 

 ur gimping the class since every other class can use those so-called exploit spots without a problem. 

 

What the fuck am I reading? You mean to tell me you weren't aware of the actual problem all this time? No other's race model is small enough to hide behind material and still be able to shoot while not being shot. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't legally retarded and that you were just as high as SneakyB when you wrote this post.

 

Wait, is Vexium the same Vexium as the one who plays on the server? Because that would make a lot of sense.